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> > Au Sable Holy Waters Sulphurs

Brian314January 1st, 2019, 1:12 pm
Fenton, MI.

Posts: 4
Hi all,
Does anyone know if the sulphurs in the Holy Waters are Ep. dorothea infrequens or Ep. dorothea dorothea ?????
TaxonJanuary 1st, 2019, 2:14 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1284
Hi Bryan-

It would be Ephemerella dorothea dorothea, as Ephemerella dorothea infrequens is only found in western states.
Roger Rohrbeck
Brian314January 5th, 2019, 3:27 am
Fenton, MI.

Posts: 4
Aaaahh Thanks Taxon !! :-)
PartsmanJanuary 6th, 2019, 3:23 pm
bancroft michigan

Posts: 192
Brian, I would suggest Ann Millers book, Hatch Guide for upper Midwest Streams, very good resource for here in Michigan.

KonchuJanuary 13th, 2019, 11:26 am
Site Editor

Posts: 495
Based on several years of looking at specimens from Michigan, I'm not sure the E. dorthea occurs in Michigan. I'll be the first to admit, however, that this part of the genus Ephemerella needs more research work. In my opinion, it's more likely that the individuals being called E. dorothea are really part of the E. excrucians group. I think most of the past reports of dorothea from Michigan are misidentifications. While the nymphs of dorothea and excrucians can be difficult to tell apart, the adults are much easier to identify. All Michigan adults that I've ever seen or read about match excrucians and not dorothea. However, all that being said, very little would surprise me. It is remotely possible that true E. dorothea are present in Michigan, but I'd need to see details of the male adults to be sure.
RogueratJanuary 13th, 2019, 1:12 pm
Posts: 435
This is an interesting thread, I'm following the spp. ID's closely because of my ofttimes confusion over 'local/regional' names for flies. E Invaria and E Dorothea D. (if E Dorothea does indeed occur in MI) can both be called Sulphurs in my part of MI, with E Dorothea as 'late' or 'small' Sulphur.

I've also seen Sulphurs onstream over several weeks that were 16's early on and later in the month they're 18's. I'll be the first to admit that this is anecdotal at best and I'm no Entomologist. Same species with smaller individuals later in the hatch?

Adding to this E Invaria females can also be called Light Hendricksons...and the smaller, reddish males Dark Hendricksons. Or Red Quills...

Anyway, GOOD thread and I look forward to further informed discussion and opinions from more experienced Trout Nuts.


'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
KonchuJanuary 13th, 2019, 1:24 pm
Site Editor

Posts: 495
In some places, it seems there is a progression of different Ephemerella species through the year, and sometimes these may overlap. Sometimes, too, the sizes and colors may (seem to?) change withing a single species as the season advances.

On top of these biology issues is the issue of what name we put on things. Common names can be troublesome, because some single species have multiple common names, and a single common name might refer to multiple species. And then there's the issue of scientific names being used in a "common" way, so they may or may not refer to what a scientist thinks of when using that name. Last of all, we also have to consider when the original (and only true) scientific meaning of the name has been lost of confused over time.

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