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> > Ephemerella invaria?

Brookyman has attached these 11 pictures to aid in identification. The message is below.
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BrookymanDecember 16th, 2012, 9:24 pm
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Posts: 797
I'm thinking Serratella serrata, but because it is a immature sample it could be something else.

I am just starting with the Ephemerella umbrella of species.
This is all I can say. Also Light Hendrickson maybe?

Just caught last week.
6mm.
turbicals 3-9 I think. see pic's
lateral abdominal projections 4-9
4 dentical on one claw and 5 on the other

I got the best I could for detail pic's from the microscope.

Mack.
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KonchuDecember 17th, 2012, 8:22 pm
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Indiana

Posts: 496
This looks like an Ephemerella sp., rather than Serratella, but it could be interesting which Ephemerella it is. The setae on the lateral margins of the abdomen look a little different.
BrookymanDecember 17th, 2012, 8:42 pm
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Posts: 797
I will take a very close peek.
it is slide mounted and I will try to describe them.

I believe I was able to get
Abdominal cavity / Tergals 2-10
5th gill
All mouth part
for claw
head capsule
1 hole for leg slide mounted.
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EntomanDecember 17th, 2012, 8:47 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Looks like an immature Ephemerella to me, probably subvaria but could be the rotunda form of invaria, I suppose. The tergal maculation looks a little like needhami but projections on the notum and head preclude this possibility. Immatures are tough.:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanDecember 17th, 2012, 9:24 pm
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Posts: 797
Hey Luke

Setae styles in biosystematics figures 9-10-11

It appears that each lateral segment edge has around 14 setae matching
figure 10. On the turbical of terga 5 has 19 setae matching both
fig 9 & 10. Each posterior edge of the segments are fringed with a combination of setae being #9 #10 #9 #10 and so on. There is a fairly well developed turbical on segment # 2. The ones on segment #9 are minute and I am not sure they count, I don't know the rules of turbical usage. The gills look like the ones I see for Ephemerella sp.

The maxillae palp has 2 setae on the middle portion around the top. The middle portion is slightly shorter than the others. The outer one terminates in a blunt point.

That's about it.. If you what no info I will level the slides on deck.

THX

Mack.
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BrookymanDecember 17th, 2012, 9:29 pm
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Hey Kurt.

Yup it really could be so many different one's.

Mack.
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TaxonDecember 17th, 2012, 9:36 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1291
It looks like Ephemerella to me as well, but I'm leaning toward E. invaria.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
BrookymanDecember 17th, 2012, 9:50 pm
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Posts: 797
Hi Roger

I believe it is to, but its so young to be sure which one.
I know that if anybody knows which Ephemerella it is,
it's Luke.

I hope it is ivaria cause I do not have any of them.

Mack.
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KonchuDecember 17th, 2012, 9:51 pm
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Indiana

Posts: 496
what's the "biosystematics" thing you're talking about? i'm wondering if you haven't come upon Ephemerella fratercula.
EntomanDecember 17th, 2012, 10:23 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
You may be right, Roger. Like subvaria (and unlike the other forms of invaria) the rotunda form does have obvious paired tergal projectiions on the abdominal segments (as this specimen has). They're certainly as big a critter, too. I would think the lighter overall coloration points to invaria also, but again, it is an immature.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanDecember 17th, 2012, 10:36 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Luke - Ah! I was wondering if that was what you were thinking when you mentioned the setae... A & E '65 has it listed as an undescribed Canadian species (nymph). Other than the fact that it has since been synoymized with invaria, I can't find anything else about it.

Mack - Luke asks a good question that I've asked before. What is this "biosystematics" document you keep referring to?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanDecember 17th, 2012, 11:25 pm
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Posts: 797
Sorry Guys,

Yeah, by "biosystematics" I mean Bednarik & Macafferty 1979 biosystematics revision to the genus Stenonema. I misspoke though as I didn't use it here (I was thinking of my other threads). I have made my own setae charts and I will load them to best describe the setae on this nymph.

If it is fractulata I can and will get you more right away. And come spring I will rear some for you.

Hey Kurt

This guy came from the reconstruction zone I mentioned in other threads.

Mack
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BrookymanApril 5th, 2013, 9:36 pm
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On this one the eyelids are present. And it has small turbicals ???
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EntomanApril 5th, 2013, 11:27 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Ha! This one's a tweener! :) Sorry Mack, I can see you are trying to sort this out and I failed to mention an important aid. Though the tubercles are (confusingly) more or less obvious and pointed with this one, what Taxon noticed (that I missed at first) is the apparent lack of tubercles on terga 2 and 3. Subvaria doesn't lack these. Sometimes the subtle differences in them (tubercles) are very hard to make out in photos. Subjective interpretation is always problematic for determinations in close calls, especially for those of us lacking formal training and/or extensive handling of the species in question...

Compare your specimens with the diagrams of this character in A & E '65 and you should be able to sort them out fairly accurately. This one was difficult (as immatures usually are), which was why I was hesitant to pick a species. But If I were a betting man, I'd go with Taxon and his leanings toward invaria (the form PKA robusta).

BTW - Now I see what you were really talking about regarding the eyes... Not the ring I mentioned but an upper "eyelid" for lack of a better word. Works for me!:) I think that is pigment coalescing in the region where the adult eye is developing. A good way to tell the sexes, but I don't know about species as all the ones we are discussing in this topic have red eyed males. It is interesting though that you've only noticed it in what you believe to be invaria specimens.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanApril 6th, 2013, 12:33 am
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Posts: 797
I think that it might be the male eyes coming in. I will watch the
Ephemerella group tight this year. HAAa I might get me a fratercula
!!!!!! :-) my tank will rumble with them and of course our beloved
STENO's.
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EntomanApril 6th, 2013, 12:51 am
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Well, you better get your "Stenos" some current or you'll have issues.:) Forget Epeorus!:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanApril 6th, 2013, 2:35 am
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Posts: 797
I will hatch EP's in the stream and steno's when they are ready to pop.

I have allot of aeration going the temperature is the one I worry about.

So what I am doing is putting small ice packs in every time I feel it
getting slightly above the stream which was 42. This is the test run
to get the tank stabilized for the upcoming weeks---no make that months LOL.

Any tips pass them on this is my first try at tank rearing. I have wanted
to do this since I was a kid :-) I like watching them it way better than
goldfish !!!!

Mack.
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EntomanApril 6th, 2013, 2:28 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
I would think it'd be okay to let it warm up into the 50's. An added bonus is your nymphs will develop faster. BTW - beware of perlids in the tank. They will clean you out!:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanApril 6th, 2013, 2:57 pm
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Posts: 797
Wow thats cool I will bring it up a bit. I hatched some accidental
early black stoneflies. I have allot of the little golden colored
one in larva form. As or if they die I will photo them.


beware of perlids in the tank
What are they. can you find a photo or illustration of them.

Mack.
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EntomanApril 6th, 2013, 7:34 pm
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Check out my recent update and new photo:
http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/1058

The stonefly you recently submitted is also a perlid. All the Golden Stones are members of the family Perlidae. They can be ferocious predators of mayfly nymphs.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
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