Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > another caddis question

GooseOctober 17th, 2006, 6:53 am
Posts: 77Hi All! I have another caddis question. Are the colors of a caddis in its emerging pupa stage the same colors it will be as an adult when the transition is complete? I hope that makes sense.
TroutnutOctober 17th, 2006, 8:35 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
Yeah, they are. The "emerging pupa" is actually not a pupa, but something called a "pharate adult," which is a fully formed adult inside a pupal exoskeleton. That outer skin is transparent so you can pretty much see the final adult through it, minus the wings, which are still crunched up in the wingpads.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZOOctober 17th, 2006, 10:19 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Goose-

I would only add that adult caddisflies do darken after emergence. Mayflies do this as well; but, with mayflies, the lighter shade of the freshly emerged mayfly is what should be imitated during a hatch.
With caddisflies, the freshly emerged (lighter) adults are less important because most fly quickly after emerging. Imitations of adult caddisflies are most useful during egg-laying and will be darker.

You can see a good example of this darkening by comparing the freshly emerged adult to the "aged" adult on the Brachycentrus appalachia page.
GooseOctober 17th, 2006, 10:43 am
Posts: 77Thanks, Guys! The reason I asked is that since I know the adult color of the body, I can tie the pupas to match and be in the ballpark. Now, the larva is another entirely different color scheme, I suppose.
GONZOOctober 17th, 2006, 11:19 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Your "reverse engineering" approach should work, but I would make the pupal patterns a shade or two lighter.

Larval patterns are not applicable to caddisfly emergence or egg-laying, and are mostly "searching" patterns for non-hatch periods. Probably the most important of these are the free-living "Green Sedge" larvae of Rhyacophila spp. Jason has some good examples of these on the Rhyacophila page. Just remember that the larvae are larger than the pupae or adults.

A few Green Sedge larvae (also known as "Green Rockworms") and a few cased caddis patterns (or "Peeking Caddis") should be all you'll usually need in this regard.
GooseOctober 18th, 2006, 5:04 am
Posts: 77Gonzo: I fish a Rockworm pattern on the Juniata River most of the year and it does well. I dub it, rib, add a head and tie if off. Sometimes I get attacked by those that argue I'm fishing with a green weenie. There are green rockworms in the water and that's all I need to know! Ha! HA!
GONZOOctober 18th, 2006, 7:51 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Hi Goose-

I've always thought that some of the Green Weenie's infamous reputation was attributable to its ability to suggest Rhyacophila larvae. There are certainly better imitations of these larvae, but when it is fished along the bottom in the fast-water habitat that the "worms" favor, it serves as an adequate imitation even though many regard it as a mere "junk attractor."

I assume that when you say you fish the Juniata River you're referring to the "Little J." That river was the favorite of my dear departed friend, Norm Shires, and it is certainly the kind of water where getting to know the important hatches can pay big dividends. Keep working on your "bugology"--you'll be rewarded for your efforts.
TroutnutOctober 18th, 2006, 8:49 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
Gonzo, do you know which species correspond to the "September Peach Fly" and/or "October Sulphur" on the Little Juniata? I've been following a discussion about those on another forum and nobody seems to know which Latin names go with those popular bugs.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZOOctober 18th, 2006, 10:42 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Jason-

I'm not familiar with the nicknames they are using, but I'd bet it's Leucrocuta hebe (Little Yellow Quill). I checked their descriptions, and everything seems to fit. On many streams in PA, it's an extremely underrated, little-known hatch.

Here's a description from my field notes that you might run by the guys on the other site: "dun abt. 6-7mm, creamy dun [gray] wing w/ darker markings around center [of costal margin] and dark crossveins throughout, creamy tan sternites w/ orange-brown tergites, two pale yellow tails and unmarked pale creamy yellow legs, tannish orange thorax, and large black eyes on male."

Up close, it looks like a little yellowish orange "Cahill" (miniature Maccaffertium). From a distance, it is easily mistaken for E. dorothea. Activity is usually concentrated around faster water, but can spill over into pools. It has a lengthy hatching period. On some streams, like the West Branch of the Delaware or the Little J, it can last into October.
GooseOctober 18th, 2006, 11:05 am
Posts: 77Thanks, Gonzo: If you're ever over this way give me a shout and we can fish the Little J.
GONZOOctober 18th, 2006, 11:10 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Thanks, Goose. I'd enjoy that.
JADOctober 20th, 2006, 8:00 pm
Alexandria Pa

Posts: 362
(Up close, it looks like a little yellowish orange "Cahill" (miniature Maccaffertium). From a distance, it is easily mistaken for E. dorothea. Activity is usually concentrated around faster water, but can spill over into pools. It has a lengthy hatching period. On some streams, like the West Branch of the Delaware or the Little J, it can last into October)
Quote
Hi guys Ill bet that's why I caught so many fish in the L-j
the end of September and early October.I used a 18 cream Coparadun and did quite well in the afternoon.

Caddisman1---Or JaD


They fasten red (crimson red) wool around a hook, and fix onto the wool two feathers which grow under a cockís wattles, and which in colour are like wax.
Radcliffe's Fishing from the Earliest Times,
GONZOOctober 21st, 2006, 8:41 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
JAD/Caddisman 1-

Welcome to the "Little Yellow Quill Club!" It's an elite group comprised of bugheads, diehards, and accidental tourists. Unless you're in the "dry flies only" cult of the club, prepare a few little sulphur-colored wets for next season because Leucrocuta hebe often emerges a bit below the surface (not on the bottom like Quill Gordon, but within a foot of the top).

This hatch actually starts in late June or early July, but in hot weather the duns escape so quickly that neither trout nor anglers pay them much attention. As the weather cools and the other hatches disappear, L. hebe really comes into its own. The dry fly action is best on cool days, but the little wet can work anytime the LYQs are hatching.

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: what is this fly?
In General Discussion by Jlw_5178
6Apr 22, 2010
by Jlw_5178
Re: Help identifying?
In the Identify This! Board by Doublezz105
3Jul 9, 2007
by Taxon
Re: La Fontaine Caddis patterns
In General Discussion by Goose
3Oct 19, 2006
by GONZO
Caddisflies in the Ontario area list needed Just the very most important ones
In General Discussion by Brookyman
0
Re: Need help identifying and insect by discription only
In the Identify This! Board by Aszat
2Nov 4, 2012
by Aszat
37 New Specimens Today
In General Discussion by Troutnut
0
Re: Colors of insect eggs
In General Discussion by Byhaugh
1Jul 29, 2017
by Taxon
Re: Tuesday
In General Discussion by Partsman
1May 31, 2018
by Partsman
Re: Pupa color?
In the Caddisfly Genus Chimarra by Frankcoz
6Apr 5, 2012
by Entoman
Re: I need help identifying these flies
In the Identify This! Board by Joeman
3Jan 25, 2018
by Martinlf
Most Recent Posts
Re: Holy Waters - over-rated
In General Discussion by Brian314 (Partsman replied)
Re: Changing fly line
In Gear Talk by Red_green_h
Re: 6wt reel help
In Gear Talk by Swampfox (Partsman replied)
Re: Cold weather fly fishing
In Beginner Help by Red_green_h
Re: Boots
In Gear Talk by Martinlf (Wbranch replied)
Re: nm
In Gear Talk by Red_green_h
Re: My (new) place and its environs
In the Photography Board by Jmd123 (Partsman replied)
Re: Site updates from September 11, 2019
In Site Updates by Troutnut (Martinlf replied)
Re: Fly fishing Basque Country in Spain
In General Discussion by 87Defender (Wbranch replied)