Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > Grannom vs Apple Caddis

This topic is about the Insect Order Trichoptera

Some say caddisflies are even more important than mayflies, and they are probably right. The angling world has taken a while to come to terms with this blasphemy. Caddis imitations are close to receiving their fare share of time on the end of the tippet, but too many anglers still assume all caddisflies are pretty much the same.

Caddis species actually provide as much incentive to learn their specifics as the mayflies do. There is just as much variety in their emergence and egg-laying behaviors, and as many patterns and techniques are needed to match them. Anglers are hampered only by the relative lack of information about caddisfly behavior and identification. Read more...

Rhyacophila (Green Sedges) Caddisfly Pupa Rhyacophila (Green Sedges) Caddisfly Pupa (11 Pictures)
Neophylax (Autumn Mottled Sedges) Caddisfly Adult Neophylax (Autumn Mottled Sedges) Caddisfly Adult (20 Pictures)
Rhyacophila fuscula (Green Sedge) Caddisfly Larva Rhyacophila fuscula (Green Sedge) Caddisfly Larva (11 Pictures)
Dicosmoecus gilvipes (Giant Orange Sedge) Caddisfly Nymph Dicosmoecus gilvipes (Giant Orange Sedge) Caddisfly Nymph (3 Pictures)

There are 88 more specimens...

The Discussion

Post Reply
WalleyeApril 26th, 2010, 10:16 am
180 Prospect Ave, Gloversville, NY, 12078

Posts: 4		 While the Grannom Caddis and Apple Caddis are both from the Brachycentrus Genus, they are seperate "species". I believe much confusion is caused by some who refer to both as the "Grannom". Grannom (species: numerosus) is not the same color, nor does it hatch the same as the Apply Caddis (speicies: applachia). Pupa of the Grannom have a dirty olive, to dark olive body, with brown wing pads, and a brown shuck.They often hatch mid morning. The Apple Caddis Pupa is a light brighter olive, and a amber wing pad and amber to ginger shuck. Apple Caddis tend to hatch later in the afternoon. While size might be the same, the coloration of the adults have a completely different look. Apple Caddis adults have a very light colored wing, and a light (apple green body color). Grannom adults have a brownish wing with a body of dark olive, mixed with brown to black coloration. I have further noticed that the Grannom seem to hatch over much of the stream while Apple Caddis seem to hatch closer to shore. I'm just trying to clear up the problem of some calling both the Grannom, which leads to much confusion.
Every trout is a trophy!
AfishinadoApril 27th, 2010, 8:06 am
SE PA

Posts: 14		I read this and saved this post from Gonzo on grannoms. I printed it out and keep in the pages of my caddisfly "bible", "Cadddisflies" by gary LaFountaine. Here is a link to Gonzo's post (3rd one down):

http://www.troutnut.com/topic/298

AfishinadoApril 27th, 2010, 8:09 am
SE PA

Posts: 14		Ooops, link doesn't work. Here's a copy of Gonzo's post:

Grannom, American Grannom, Shadfly, Apple Caddis, Mother's Day Caddis, and Black Caddis are all common names applied to Brachycentrus species. Mother's Day Caddis is the most common Western nickname for Brachycentrus occidentalis, a Western "grannom," but I have also heard this name applied generally to "grannoms" here in the East.

In PA, it is useful to think of "dark grannoms" and "light grannoms." The species your flies are imitating are more typical of the dark grannoms. The "apple caddis" is a light grannom. Most of the important (PA) Brachycentrus species have overlapping hatch periods, so either dark or light imitations (or both) can be called for, depending on the stream.

Here's my current breakdown for important PA species:

Brachycentrus numerosus--Penn's Creek Caddisfly, Dark Grannom, Dark Shadfly; adults have dark-mottled wings and dark blackish green bodies; pupae usually dark with green lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus lateralis--Striped Grannom, Dark Grannom, Black Caddis; adults have dark wings and pupae are typically dark olive with tan lateral stripes and dark wingcases.

Brachycentrus nigrosoma--Little Dark Grannom, Little Black Caddis; adults/pupae are smaller and darker than numerosus.

Brachycentrus appalachia--Apple Caddis, Light Shadfly, Light Grannom; adults have very light tannish or grayish wings (almost white when freshly emerged) and apple green bodies; pupae are apple green with tan wingcases.

(Brachycentrus solomoni and incanu are also found in PA. B. solomoni is very similar to numerosus, and incanu is rather rare.)

Most "grannom" activity in PA occurs from mid-April to mid-May. During that time, if you carry imitations of dark and light grannoms (adults and pupae) in sizes #14-16, you should have most bases covered.

You are right that the adult imitations are seldom very good during the emergence (pupa or emerger patterns are best). During the egg-laying activity, however, they are often very effective. The fish may prefer skittered, dead-drifted, or wet adult imitations depending upon the concentrations around their lies.
MartinlfJanuary 8th, 2013, 7:40 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2094		Does anyone have any good Apple Caddis recipes? I want to get ready for spring on the Delaware and have some tying time now.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
WbranchJanuary 8th, 2013, 11:35 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 1065		Louis,

I have both a pupa and adult that work quite well. I'll email you photos and tying recipes - with instructions if any steps are complicated.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty years.
MartinlfJanuary 9th, 2013, 7:41 am
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2094		Thanks, Matt,
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
EntomanJanuary 9th, 2013, 9:23 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA

Posts: 2012		Louis,

Here's a thread from last year you might find interesting to revisit.
http://www.troutnut.com/topic/6591/Brachycentrus-Pupal-Behavior
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Emergence
In Brachycentrus appalachia Caddisfly Adult by Martinlf		0
Re: Need help..
In Fly Tying by Nightangler		1Sep 16, 2006
by GONZO
37 New Specimens Today
In General Discussion by Troutnut		0
Re: at last i have a bug question
In the Identify This! Board by CaseyP		2Apr 5, 2012
by CaseyP
Bald Eagle Caddis
In Brachycentrus appalachia Caddisfly Adult by Troutboomer		0
Re: BWO Color
In General Discussion by Goose		3Mar 27, 2013
by JOHNW
Re: Little J flow
In General Discussion by Wbranch		4Mar 19, 2010
by Wbranch
SWPA: What's hatching on the home-base?... week of 5/6/11
In General Discussion by Jtberez		0
Re: Peeking Caddis
In General Discussion by Altoidmatt		4Jan 17, 2010
by Wbranch
Re: Grannom Caddis Colors
In Fly Tying by Lastchance		4Mar 21, 2010
by Lastchance
Most Recent Posts
Re: South Korea
In General Discussion by FisherOfMen (PaulRoberts replied)
Re: Permethrin clothing...thumbs down
In General Discussion by Jkrah123 (Nhflyguy replied)
Re: Anyone know this angler?
In Fishing Reports by Crepuscular (Entoman replied)
Re: Paralep adoptiva vs. E. pluralis
In the Identify This! Board by Adirman
Re: Arctopsyche grandis
In the Caddisfly Species Arctopsyche grandis by Flymonster
Re: newly designed soft hackles.
In General Discussion by Sayfu
help!!! we need help to identify this trout
In General Discussion by Amcjrotc06
Re: A Peek in the Boxes: Part Two
In the Photography Board by Oldredbarn
Re: This is why...
In Toughannock Creek by SLink (Brookyman replied)
Re: Caddis ID needed
In the Identify This! Board by Brookyman (Oldredbarn replied)