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Flybinder	November 7th, 2007, 11:28 pm
Oregon Coast Posts: 60	Gotta admit!! VERY FEW fly fishing forums can go from "Fishing related questions", clear to "The Evolution of man and why the sky is blue", just because someone asked about "deer hair tying and using colored markers"!?! I've seen threads on boards "hi-jacked", before, but this one's been really "different", for sure!! I, agree, can we stick to fishing, perhaps, instead of Darwin?
	Flybinder: "You should'a been here, NEXT week,the fishing's great!"
Falsifly	November 8th, 2007, 12:14 am
Hayward, WI. Posts: 661	Flybinder, Lets not forget about John Dewey.
	Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Shawnny3	November 8th, 2007, 5:33 am
Moderator Pleasant Gap, PA Posts: 1197	Jonathon, I was only making a joke. I thought that the overall tone of my post and my last line in particular made it clear that my comments were made tongue-in-cheek, that I was just pointing out a humorous irony in the rhetoric we often use to discuss these touchy issues (you must admit that the statement you made about being a "firm believer" in evolution also contains a humorous dose of irony). I apologize if that seemed like an indictment. I quite understood the point you were making and was not trying to put any words in your mouth. I actually quite enjoyed your discussion on fish color - maybe I should have prefaced my remarks by saying that. And as for the suggestion, gentlemen, that we stay on topic, a very noble goal that is indeed. But I think part of the charm of this forum is that people sometimes digress from the often dry, scientific dialogue to engage in a little good-natured banter, even the occasional ill-conceived poetry. So let's not take it too seriously. -Shawn
	Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis www.davisflydesigns.com
Falsifly	November 8th, 2007, 11:11 am
Hayward, WI. Posts: 661	Great post Shawn. As Gonzo once reminded me, the written word is often misconstrued and taken as an insult when none was intended. All of us have ideas and beliefs that will be opposed by others. It is the refusal to allow one’s opinion, right or wrong, that results in the conflict. “If I claim to be a wise man than surely I don’t know”. As to the change in direction. If one wishes to change the direction of a topic it is either accepted or rejected. But please allow one the courtesy to inject one’s babbling banter. It is the idiot within us that often creates the greatest laughter. Now what was it we were talking about? Oh ya Bass Bugs.
	Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Shawnny3	November 8th, 2007, 7:32 pm
Moderator Pleasant Gap, PA Posts: 1197	Thank you, Falsifly - I just hope I don't offend anyone with my sarcasm. It's happened before, almost enough to get me to stop. By the way, I have enjoyed your witticisms on various threads. -Shawn
	Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis www.davisflydesigns.com
Jmd123	November 8th, 2007, 8:14 pm
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611	Hey Shawn, got it. Thanks - no problems here, man. Now what about those bass bugs? Jonathon P.S. By the way, Chris, don't EVER be apologetic about fishing for bass and bluegill in a farm pond. It's a BLAST! I never managed to go trout fishing this year, but had loads of fun on largemouth & bluegills in a local pond, and especially on the Huron River behind my apartment, where bluegills & smallmouth were hitting mayflies and caddis as if they WERE trout. Anyone who looks down their nose at this type of fishing is missing out on one hell of a lot of FUN.
	No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
Shawnny3	November 10th, 2007, 7:21 am
Moderator Pleasant Gap, PA Posts: 1197	No worries, Jonathon. By the way, that was a nice exposition on the distinction between 'reason' and 'purpose'. I find in conversations on this subject that people many times misunderstand it, and they end up anthropomorphizing evolution until it starts sounding very much like Intelligent Design. It's easy to do this in science - just yesterday a colleague of mine accused me (in a good-natured way) of anthropomorphizing atoms in my attempt to make the subject of bonding easy for my students to grasp. His comment was, "Oh, so now atoms have desires? What next, emotions?! What the heck are you teaching these kids?" I resisted the urge to ask him whether my teaching chemistry this way made the collection of atoms inside his brain register an emotional response, and, if so, what exactly constituted that response - but his point was well taken. What do we really mean, though, when we say that there are simple physical 'forces' such as gravity, electrostatics, magnetism, etc.? Do we truly understand the answer to the underlying question of why these forces exist? I'll handle that one - absolutely not. At the most fundamental level, all we ever do in science is describe WHAT we observe - we are helpless to answer the grand question of WHY. In that sense, matter DOES have mysterious 'desires', a mind of its own, if you will - but that sense can be easily misunderstood if we're not careful. When speaking about evolution, the irony of these different understandings can become especially great, since the process contains such a degree of randomness. There is a fine line between the way the atheist and the theist use words like 'reason', 'purpose', 'desire', 'design', 'accomplish', 'built', 'made', etc. It leaves me wondering if the debate is so heated not because of the science per se but because of the implications of interpreting the science one way or the other. -Shawn P.S. And, um, yeah - bass bugs. Uh, make them obnoxious. Piss the bass off. In other words, cause a combination of light and pressure waves to send a signal to the bass' eyes and ears that, once transported and translated via complex mechanisms, irritates the complex network of atoms in their brains to send electrical signals that, again through complicated pathways, raise certain hormone levels, triggering a carefully orchestrated series of muscle spasms which makes the fish inhale your fly and thrash about violently after sensing, via additional complex mechanisms, the hook in its mouth. I'll leave the word 'orchestrated' up to the reader to interpret, as well as the origin of any of these other complicated interactions of matter, light, sound, and electricity. Who ever knew bass fishing was so complicated?
	Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis www.davisflydesigns.com
Falsifly	November 10th, 2007, 9:26 am
Hayward, WI. Posts: 661	Let me see if I understand this correctly. It’s not about a bass bug, but how to bug a bass. Or is it how to bug a bass with a bass bug?
	Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Jmd123	November 12th, 2007, 9:22 am
Oscoda, MI Posts: 2611	How to bass bug (or, bug bass): 1. Tie on bass bug. 2. Throw bass bug at bass. 3. Entice bass to hit bass bug. 4. Sink hook within bass bug into bass's jaw. 5. Hang on... 6. Remove hook within bass bug from bass's jaw. 7. Release bass and thank the fish for the fabulous fight. 8. Repeat until satisfied (or other time constraints interfere). Or does that take all of the "mystery" out of it? Tight lines and dancing bass... Jonathon
	No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...

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