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The Specimen

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BrookymanFebruary 21st, 2014, 6:17 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Hey Spence.

That was an epic game. I had given up by the second period. But tuned in for the last surprise in the last 4 minutes. If that one girl " Haily "??? for your side had not got that penalty in OT the US my have just won. But it is our game after all and the girls train against the guys. I am not really into sports other than fly fishing, but that game was epic. It looks like our guys won to.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanFebruary 21st, 2014, 7:27 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Hey, RU gonna answer my question or gloat about Hockey! :)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanFebruary 21st, 2014, 9:58 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
I was collecting them in my net while picking up some STENO'S, :-) I haven't see many over the past 3 years like a handful. I have also seen the orange-yellow larva but they are about 12-15 mm. The pupa is smaller if my memory serves me right like about 10 mm so about a size 16 hook. Any guess on this one ???

Hey Kurt did you see the post....inside the Hackle House I did ???



Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanFebruary 21st, 2014, 10:13 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
That was a quick edit!
In the drift near the surface or knocked from rocks?

Yes, I did. Interesting man. I hope you are able to help his family.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanFebruary 21st, 2014, 10:55 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
I believe I knocked them lose cause I was kicking it up. I will have to try to get the larva and pupa on film this spring. They are not very common but they sure stand out. Do they ring a bell Kurt.


You like that quick edit uh. :-)
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
TaxonFebruary 22nd, 2014, 2:02 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
Please forgive my confusion, but isn't this thread titled Specimen Discussion > Chimarra :-)
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
EntomanFebruary 22nd, 2014, 2:11 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
That helps Mack. Those were most likely pupae in their early development and thus retained a lot of larval color. By the time they emerge they have largely (usually) taken on the color of the adults, though in some cases more vibrant. The word pupa is often erroneously used by us anglers to describe what are technically pharate adults (pharates that have eclosed from the pupal cuticle and exited their shelters). This is why there is so much confusion about color. A species seined from the drift in the process of emergence can look quite different in color from its brothers pried from a rock earlier in the cycle.

Though I can't think of an orange pharate adult or "emergent pupa" in that size range (they are usually either very tiny or very large), there are several possibilities for it in early development. The saddle-case makers of the Glossosomatidae, smaller tube case making Limnephiloidea like the Apataniidae smoky sedges and even the philopotamid finger-net caddis like the Chimarra example above could possibly be orange hued as larvae and early stage pupae. Coloration can vary quite a bit depending on habitat and strain and samples are thin. Try to get some pictures this Summer.

I'm trying, Roger...;)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Jmd123February 22nd, 2014, 12:39 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2369
Kurt, Roger is just trying to "keep it real", or at least keep it about fly fishing...

;oD

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
EntomanFebruary 23rd, 2014, 3:14 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Yes, I got that.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnFebruary 23rd, 2014, 11:13 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Sorry Roger...I have a short attention span.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TaxonFebruary 23rd, 2014, 2:39 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
:-)
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
CrepuscularFebruary 23rd, 2014, 9:46 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
Yes, I got that.


:)
BrookymanFebruary 24th, 2014, 4:29 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Hi Kurt

I had some pictures but remember my computer got hacked and they are gone. I will try to get pictures this spring. The small orange larva are somewhat common. But the pupa stage seem very uncommon. In the past 3 years I would guess I have seen a total of about 200 larva, but only about 10 pupa. So hopefully I can find a pupa to take a picture of. Looking at my hook chart I would say it is safe to say that the pupa size would fit nicely on a 94842 # 16 hook so likely under the 10 mm size. I would think that they are net spinners and free moving because they are always coming for faster riffle lines up to about 20 miles per hour and no deeper than 15 inches. As well I have only found the larva in a free moving state with no form of case present. I will have to look closer to the net spinners in there homes to see if they live like the green guys. Hum maybe I can stick some in the tank this spring with my Stenacron's and try to see what we get. The pupa is a very bright orange like the orange acetate floss we use to make wet flies like the ( Bread-crust or Partridge & orange ). I even tied a pupa with the orange floss that looked just like it, to carry around with all the other "JUST-IN-CASE" fly patters. I think we all carry one of those boxes everywhere we go ???


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanFebruary 24th, 2014, 10:11 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
The lack of larval cases excludes all but the philopotomids, at least from my list of possibilities. Perhaps they are the less common Dolophilodes (Winter Caddis). That would explain the relative lack of Pupae during your early Summer sampling. They do emerge a little in the Summer, but are mostly Fall/Winter emergers. Another possibility is Wormaldia (Little Fall Stream Caddis). Though even less common, they are more likely to be found in the smaller upland streams you frequent than the other two. What has me wondering more than the color you are reporting is their size. A size 16 is outsized for these genera according to most reports. Without a look at the critter, discussions of what it may or may not be is pretty speculative.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanFebruary 25th, 2014, 2:13 am
Banned
Posts: 797
I know for sure I can find and photo the larva, but the pupa might be another story. The larva is larger being about the size 10-12 mm and the orange color is more of a ( golden-yellow-orange ) like the Chimarra not very bright in hue. I will try to keep some going in the tank this spring. Last year I did put some larva in my tank but they kept dying on me, even though other larva like the conditions and did OK. They must be very sensitive to conditions. One other thing I should mention the pupa are not bound to anything they are in the clear membrane like a pupa preparing to emerge. The wings, antenna, and legs are all trailing backwards just as in a emerging state, if that makes sense, and I find them in May & June in that state while larva are free living as well. I will have to look at my patterns in my boxes. You know that I am ridiculous with color and size proportions, so what I tied will be very tight to the real thing by size, shape, and color.

Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
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