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> > Getting into a "Fly Selection rut" when Fishing
| Adirman | May 25th, 2011, 5:45 pm | |
 Posts: 504 | I don't know about many of you guys but as for me, when I arrive on stream and nothings rising and noapparent insect activity is obvious (this happens about 6/10 trips BTW!!), I find myself lately always going to the same setup/patterns: 2 flies, one a 16-18 nymph (either hares ear, caddis larva or pheasant tail) dropper, and a size 8-12 nymph/streamer such as a stonefly/wooly bugger or beaded prince pattern anchor. I almost NEVER fish w/ a dry as dropper/indicator anymore, just assuming its pointless cuz there's no surface activity. Anyone else ever feel like they get "locked in" so to speak to a particular format/selection? Unless I'm doing streamers, that's the way I always end up fishing!! Thoughts or ideas please!! | |
| Jmd123 | May 25th, 2011, 7:08 pm | |
 Posts: 2611 | Adirman, try going with a big, bold attractor dry fly. My particular favorite is a Royal Wulff, size 10. I have had plenty of fish come out of nowhere when there was nothing in the way of flies on the water, or rising fish, and smack that fly pretty hard. Also, when a fish is rising but there's nothing really visible that they are rising to. Other Wulff patterns work well too, plus there's a wide variety of other attractor dries out there. Try a few different ones and see what works best for you! An Adams or Elkhair Caddis also makes a good "searching" pattern when there's no rises. Just my 2 cents...Good luck! Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Troutnut | May 25th, 2011, 7:12 pm | |
 Administrator Bellevue, WAPosts: 2737 | Yeah, definitely don't ignore dries just because you don't see fish rising. There might not be anything in the surface at that moment to cause them to rise, but you can put something there that may do the job! It's good to be aware of the common possibility that fish are focusing on nymphs, but never let a lack of visible surface activity rule out surface fishing without some other reasons mixed in. | |
| Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D. Troutnut and salmonid ecologist | ||
| Jmd123 | May 25th, 2011, 7:19 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | It's always possible that a fish might be sitting in a feeding station without there actually being a hatch going on, just to see if anything edible floats by. After all, a good feeding station has gentle enough currents that a fish can sit in one without expending too much energy, and they never know when something might just fall in the water, perhaps a random terrestrial insect, small frog, etc. Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Motrout | May 25th, 2011, 11:14 pm | |
 | I do get into a bit of a rut as far as fly selection goes. I guess maybe that's a problem, but I have gotten very confident fishing a few different flies and I think that is important. When I am fishing the small trout streams around home, unless there is a heavy hatch I will go with one of three dries as an attractor: and Ausable Wulff, and Elk Hair Caddis, or a Parachute Adams, usually in #12 or #14. For subsurface, either as droppers or by themselves, I seldom use anything but a Pheasant Tail or Hare's Ear Nymph, just about always #16 or #18. For some reason the trout around home generally prefer pretty decent sized dries and small nymphs. Of course that kind of goes out the window when I am fishing a larger river or somewhere away from home, although even then I find myself going back to those flies pretty often. | |
| "I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Adirman | May 26th, 2011, 6:04 am | |
Posts: 504 | Thanks guys! Motrout, I know what you mean as I've gotten comfortable fishing my aforementioned rigs and have had success w/ it but I just don't wan to go to the stream w/ blinders on, ya know? I like the idea w/ attractor dries and may give that a try this weekend!! | |
| Flatstick96 | May 26th, 2011, 10:49 am | |
 | It's easy (and only natural) to gravitate toward what has worked for you in the past, particularly when there isn't any information available to point you toward a specific patten that you "should" be fishing. No harm in that. But, if you're looking for suggestions on how to shake up your routine... One of my absolute favorite all-around flies is the wet black ant, ESPECIALLY when there "isn't a lot happening" in the dead of summer. All that has to "happen" for an ant to become trout food is a little bad luck on the part of the ant, and that can happen at basically ANY time. Plus, they're cheap and easy to tie, so it's easy to stay well-stocked on them, and if you lose one (and you will if you're fishing them super tight to the bank or flinging them up under overhanging vegetation), no big deal. There are a handful of days in my fly-fishing life that stand out with stark clarity, and which I'll never forget - the first day I ever fished a wet black ant is right at the top of the list... | |
| PaulRoberts | May 26th, 2011, 11:58 am | |
 Posts: 1776 | I guess I see it this way: Unless there are extreme conditions I expect trout to be on feeding stations. That's what they do for a living. If there is no specific insect activity (although often there are at least trends happening -trout seeing more of one thing than another), I choose a method/rig/technique appropriate to conditions (water type, sky and water conditions), and THEN choose flies. For me, the flies are, most often, something trout are apt to see -something I've found esp abundant in quick sampling, or already known; I'm hip to habit requirements of certain bugs and know they can influence the trout there. Sampling also tells me what might come during my time there, or maybe when and where specifically I should return. I also pump a few fish to see what they are seeing. I'm always watching for an "in". Sometimes I just walk and watch -very educational and has taught me a lot about how trout feed, and about fishing approaches. This all really varies with waters I'm fishing, from say tailwaters to headwaters. In the small to little streams I've been fishing most lately this is often a small buoyantly tied dry and a nymph dropper. Which ones depend on stream, season, and particular stretch. Lately the focus has been Baetis using a large (#16) buoyantly tied parachute with a #18 Baetis dropper. Or, with water levels up from recent rain, I'm using either a yarn worm or golden stone pattern fished beneath an indicator. If water's a bit roiled from rain I may switch over to an actively fished wet fly. We're getting into caddis season here very soon with Hydropsychids coming on first, followed by Arctopsychae and Glossosoma. Then come the PMDs. These are good starters here and what I have tied on when I leave the house. Adjustments come as I see fit. Sometimes I'm surprised by conditions (hate being out of touch), conditions change, or I find some insect activity that I can exploit. Sounds complicated and is, or would be at the get-go, but I've been perusing streams awhile and can whittle things down pretty quick. | |
| Jmd123 | May 26th, 2011, 12:35 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Paul, do you ever wonder what the fish thinks when you pump their stomach and let them go? "Geez, that guy wasn't after me, he just wanted my bugs! Hey buddy, go get your own!!!" All of this sounds like good advice to me. My comments are due to the fact that I have a fondness for attractor dries, they've worked well for me and I like to tie them, but then again maybe that's my own rut...I do like the black ant idea. In any case, good to mix it up once in a while, you never know what might happen. Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| PaulRoberts | May 26th, 2011, 3:36 pm | |
Posts: 1776 | In a lot of waters, a lot of the time, an attractor (or generalized) fly will keep you in fish. I do it too, although my "generalized" patterns are not of the "Royal..." family. They tend to just be low maintenance patterns appropriate for water conditions and large enough to see well, support a larger tippet (maintenance again), and still take enough fish to keep me interested. But I also actively keep my eyes open, and am willing to go a bit deeper bc I like the connections and at times it pays off in more fish, bigger fish, or easier fishing in that you don't have to convince a fish that your fly is "food". As to pumping...it does feel a little bad taking a portion of fish's daily sup. But it's worth it by answering key questions I can get at no other way. Even more effective is killing the fish for a really good look. Every fish I kill for the table has its stomach emptied. Here's a good example: Last year, I caught 5 big channel cats in less than an hour on small crankbaits while bass fishing from a float tube (talk about a hassle!). This is NOT normal. I only occasionally catch them on lures -and usually on jigs or plastics. I couldn't explain their aggressiveness but assumed it had to do with food, or mebbe centered around spawning activity. I killed one for the table and found the answer. It's stomach was packed with Russian Olive fruits. The strong wind that day had piled them onto certain shorelines and the cats were concentrated and grabbing anything remotely like them. Here's a trout example: During spring high water a few years ago I passed a newb on the stream who blurted out he'd caught a 15incher -a big one on this particular stream. He suggested I use a San Juan Worm. He'd read that trout eat worms in spring so that's what he tried. Now... this can be true, esp when conditions are right, and in the right stretches that support lots of worms -usually where there's deciduous leaf litter. I thanked him but kinda thought "Yeah yeah". Later that day I caught a good one on a stonefly nymph and it's stomach was PACKED. So I pumped it, and out came a wad of leaf worms that didn't dent the mass in that fishs stomach. Tucked in the corner of my fly box were some yarn worms I'd tied for similar circumstances I'd run into years ago back East. My catch rate more than doubled following that fly change. That's happened many times for me, even on small streams. Not having to convince a fish that your fly is "food"--the soup du jour--can make your fishing not only more productive but so much easier. Ants are uniquely great trout catchers that, most simply, trip trouts "bug receptors". Ken Miyata wrote an influential article called "Anting the Hatch" once upon a time. (Actually anything Ken had to say was influential). But...ants are tough to see and less than low maintenance on the broken waters I now fish. But on those tough flat pools they can be a great generalized choice. They can also be a "hatch matcher". I've used them to take some "good ones" a number of times, including (for the former Ithacans amongst us) a heavy 16inch brown from Enfield Ck and 13inch brookie from East Branch Owego Ck. | |
| Jmd123 | May 26th, 2011, 4:32 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Paul, when I used to kill trout on a regular basis (something I haven't done in years but who knows, depends on how long it is until my next job project!) I would always open up the stomach to see what was in there, and it can be quite an education. My fly fishing mentor once found a great big water beetle in a brown trout's guts, not a very big fish either. Then again, on one stretch of stream I kept finding dragonfly nymphs in stomachs and proceeded to tie up what I thought were decent imitations but they wouldn't touch them. But, maybe they weren't as good of imitations as I thought or I wasn't fishing them right... Speaking of catfish, I actually caught not one but two in a (stocked but for some reason largely unfished - advantage mine!) manmade pond in Texas (same place I caught my biggest largemouth of all time). Two channel cats in the 17" range, one of which actually took one of my "micropoppers" (visualize a deer-hair bass bug tied on a standard #10 dry fly hook) and the other one of my silver/grey KBFs in size 10. Didn't look in their stomachs... Great story about the worms! There's a lesson to be learned there for sure. Maybe that's what I need to do on the Pine, which seems consistently silty right now with all this danged rain...Some reddish-brown chenille on a hook with a little weight... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Flatstick96 | May 26th, 2011, 5:14 pm | |
| Interesting conversation. I was recently bass fishing with spinning gear and caught 5 catfish - fist time I'd ever caught catfish that way. Didn't keep any, or pump any stomachs, so have no idea why they were so eager to take my bait (a plastic shad imitation). It was an odd enough occurrence that I've been thinking about it a lot, wondering what they were thinking. Paul, that's a heckuva brookie for Owego Creek - I never caught one anywhere near that big in there. Nice job. Tried fishing there last summer when I was back home for a visit - first time I'd been to that stream in 15 years. There was so little water in it that you could damned near jump across it in many places. Drove it from Harford Mills to well below Richford and it just looked awful everywhere. With Ithaca as our starting point Shawnny and I put over 300 miles on the car that day and didn't find a single bit of fishable water the entire day. Worst water conditions I'd ever seen in that area - just amazing... | |
| PaulRoberts | May 26th, 2011, 6:08 pm | |
Posts: 1776 | Paul, when I used to kill trout on a regular basis (something I haven't done in years but who knows, depends on how long it is until my next job project!) I would always open up the stomach to see what was in there, and it can be quite an education. My fly fishing mentor once found a great big water beetle in a brown trout's guts, not a very big fish either. Then again, on one stretch of stream I kept finding dragonfly nymphs in stomachs and proceeded to tie up what I thought were decent imitations but they wouldn't touch them. But, maybe they weren't as good of imitations as I thought or I wasn't fishing them right... Dragonflies, or any fly, must be understood in context, and motion, as well as looks in hand. Channel cats are pretty aggressive predators, but when we catch a bunch on horizontally fished lures, there's a good reason. I've caught bullheads on lures too, and even some at the surface. This was bc they were feeding on spawning shad, along with the walleyes. With so many preoccupied baitfish crowded at the surface even bullheads found them energetically feasible "food". Flatstick, when I get to it, I'll send a PM. Yeah, I remember a few drought years too. Tough to impossible fishing. Time to do something else but a good time to learn about extremes. | |
| PaulRoberts | May 27th, 2011, 9:53 am | |
Posts: 1776 | Oh, I missed part of the question, although others covered it: You can fish a dry even with little or no surface activity, as long as the fish can see it. When there is little going on trout will feed eclectically, expanding their view and alternately glean the bottom, intercept mid-drift, and rise. I've watched them doing it. If they are close enough to the surface eclectically feeding trout are likely to rise for a "bug". It's when specific insect activity happens that trout become "myopic", or focused -just like those bullheads mentioned above. Every movement of a fish requires a payback -"food". Don't underestimate how powerful a force this is for mature poikilotherms. Living this way is how those mature fish got to mature. Where this appears to lax some is during periods of high metabolic efficiency (see the recent thread Water Temps by MOTROUT). | |
| Jesse | May 28th, 2011, 2:11 pm | |
 | Just fish what your confident in and be willing to change depending on the circumstances given to you! | |
| Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after. http://www.filingoflyfishing.com | ||
| Entoman | June 4th, 2011, 1:40 am | |
 Posts: 2604 | Excellent comments all. Great thread! The only thing I have to add is sometimes you're in the mood to fish a dry fly regardless of surface activity... So why not? The only water type I usually don't consider for this is spring creeks - But mountain lakes where much of the available biomass eaten by trout is upslope blow-in, or on summer freestones? Oh yeah... Sometimes, it's fun on lakes to just throw out a nymph and drift with the wind, or drag around a wooly bugger or streamer and check out the life going on around you. Checking out interesting skies is a great activity while fishing. One of the things I love about trout are the beautiful environs they usually inhabit. Fishing with a dry or nymph is pretty intense in terms of concentration and focus if you're serious about catching fish, but a lot of the time it's great just to enjoy the day. Sometimes, the fishing gods will reward you with something very special when you are at your most serene. Regards, Kurt | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Jmd123 | June 4th, 2011, 2:59 am | |
Posts: 2611 | Kurt, lately it seems to be the streamer thing that's working for me, Woolly Buggers (olive grizzly/peacock/natural grizzly) and KBFs. Maybe it's all that streamer swinging I did for smallies downstate... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Jmd123 | June 9th, 2011, 11:20 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | UPDATE: a Female Adams size 12 brought up fish that were not, as far as I could tell, feeding on the surface today...so there's a suggestion for ya! Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Adirman | June 10th, 2011, 5:59 am | |
Posts: 504 | Jonathon; Did you use the Adams exclusively or as an indicator fly w/ a wet/nymph on the point? Also, what made you go w/ the Adams initially in your decision making or did you arrive at that after changing flies a few times? Thanks, Adirman | |
| Jmd123 | June 10th, 2011, 1:40 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Adirman, I fished only the Female Adams, no dropper or other flies - I haven't gotten into fishing multi-fly rigs yet, I figure I get enough tangles and IFKs (Impossible Fishing Knots) using just one! And my decision to use this fly was simply based upon what was in my box - my supply of dry flies was severely depleted by "fly-eating trees" during my first several outtings this year and I haven't gotten behind the vise enough to make more. I had three nice fresh ones I had tied from last year and just thought, well, this looks good, let's give it a try. And it was the first and only fly I had on all day. Worked damn well! I discussed my results and thoughts in another post, take a look there and tell me what you think... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
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