Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > ?Perlodidae?



Sundula has attached these 3 pictures to aid in identification. The message is below.
View Full SizeView Full Size (3.6X larger)
View Full SizeView Full Size (3X larger)
View Full SizeView Full Size (3X larger)
Post Reply
SundulaSeptember 12th, 2006, 4:08 pm
Littleton, Colorado

Posts: 35		This one I beleive I have nailed down I just want to be sure, I have been using Jim Schollmeyer's "Hatch Guide For Western Streams" for my identification.
I'm going with:
Family: Perlodidae
Genus: Isoperla
Little Yellow Stonefly nymph (Yellow Sally), please enlighten me if I'm incorrect.
GONZOSeptember 12th, 2006, 8:12 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681		Sorry to disagree with your identification, but this appears to be an immature specimen of the Perlidae--not Perlodidae. Take heart though, you are not the first to confuse them. Both families include strongly marked black-and-yellow or brown-and-yellow nymphs. Perlodid nymphs are usually more slender and cylindrical; but the best general guidelines for distinguishing them are three words from Ken Stewart's description in Stoneflies for the Angler (Leiser and Boyle)--"gill-less," "waxy," and "non-hairy." (Some Perlodid nymphs do have simple unbranched gills, but they are not as obvious as the branched gills that project from all three thoracic segments, as in your specimen.) Rather than a "yellow sally," you have a "golden stone." I won't hazard much beyond that because I am not as familiar with the Western members of the Perlidae as I am with their Eastern relatives. I suspect that Taxon could pick up where I left off. Hope that helps.
TroutnutSeptember 12th, 2006, 8:31 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2737		Gonzo's right -- this is Perlidae.

It's easy to tell them apart at a glance from the general shape once you've seen lots of them, but it's hard at first.

The main distinguishing characteristic you can use at first is that Perlidae nymphs have branched, filamentous gills (or "fluffy") gills on the sides/bottom of the thorax. Perlodidae and the related Chloroperlidae nymphs have either no gills there or simple non-fluffy gills.

After you've seen lots of them, the characteristics Gonzo described give it away at a glance. Perlodidae nymphs have a more clean, slender look. Start out browsing the pictures of the nymphs on my Perlidae and Perlodidae pages... that should give you a sense of the general shapes.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
SundulaSeptember 12th, 2006, 8:55 pm
Littleton, Colorado

Posts: 35		Thank you both for the help,I am still very new at the specific identification of aquatic insects or any insect for that matter. I have only begun to collect them, and I value your knowledge and experience. I look forward to incorrectly identifying many more in the quest to refine my understanding of that mysterious world I find myself submerged in. Bear with me, and again thank you.
TroutnutSeptember 12th, 2006, 9:58 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2737		Hey, that's what this site is for. :) I wouldn't have made it if everybody already knew their bugs. The whole point is to learn.

Of course, Taxon and I and the others here who "know our bugs" will be the first to tell you that there's a lot more we don't know than what we do know. That's the great thing about this sport. There's always more interesting stuff to get into and figure out.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
EntomanApril 7th, 2013, 6:39 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		This is a good example (though immature) of Claassenia sabulosa. It is the only western taxon in the subfamily Perlinae, whose taxa are noted for having occipital ridges giving the back of their heads a flat or concave look. Western anglers who don't concern themselves with taxonomic fine points can easily tell them (adults) from other golden stones by their Fall emergence and the males being brachypterous (stub winged). The nymph's unique head shape and long tails and antennae (for a western perlid) are other obvious clues.

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
SayfuApril 7th, 2013, 10:05 am
Posts: 560
Here's a monkey in the wrench again on whether stones crawl out to emerge, or whether some emerge at the surface. After reading Dave Hughes description of stone fly emergence he says, "ALL stones crawl out" He describes egg layers as fooling one into believing it is an emergence. They are very hard to see returning to the water, and egg layers on the water, and trout rising to them gives the appearance of an emergence. As a total amateur when it comes to bug IDing, I certainly could have been fooled. One guide guru around here told me if I put my eye down to water level it would be hard to see adult yellow sallies floating on the water because of their wings blending with the water.
EntomanApril 7th, 2013, 6:45 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		Yes, that is the general consensus... I've observed the following behaviors fishing Little Yellow Stone "hatches" many times though that are seemingly contradictory to the accepted orthodoxy. Taken together, they are not easily explained away.

1. Absent glare, Little Yellow Stones are easy to make out on glides and smooth runs - both on the surface and in the air. Especially with the low sun at your back that makes them light up in the air when silhouetted and the stream surface a dark contrast...
2. They can appear as if out of nowhere and quickly fly away after a brief float. Like with mayfly hatches, the air can have quite a few lifting off and flying away, but none observed coming back or landing. This behavior is perhaps the hardest to square up with the orthodoxy as I have spent quite a bit of time in the past on my elbows within a few feet of their sudden appearances at the surface.
3. The frequent absence of shucks in the riparian zone. Their sheer numbers in the air and on the water at these times should mean their shucks will be found in abundance.
4. The presence of males and non-gravid females in the drift. The latter is not due to post oviposit as egg development is still visible in their abdomens and their genitalia are undisturbed.
5. Gravid females are often not present. Plain flies usually out-fish the ones with red butts for me by a wide margin.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanApril 7th, 2013, 7:48 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		BTW Jere -

After reading Dave Hughes description of stone fly emergence he says, "ALL stones crawl out"

Rick Hafele (Dave Hughes' entomology guru) has written differently. I'm generally skeptical of declared "absolutes" in fishing and bug behavior.:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
CrepuscularApril 8th, 2013, 7:24 am
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 923
BTW Jere -

After reading Dave Hughes description of stone fly emergence he says, "ALL stones crawl out"

Rick Hafele (Dave Hughes' entomology guru) has written differently. I'm generally skeptical of declared "absolutes" in fishing and bug behavior.:)


That second statement is so "absolutely" true! The second anyone tells you that a particular insect does something all the time, a flag should go up in your mind. Especially when you are talking about insects at the order or family level (even genus too). When referring to a single species you may have a higher probability of being correct but it is much easier to make qualified statements about these critters. I have witnessed plenty of stoneflies emerge en masse mid current. Especially in the early spring around here.
OldredbarnApril 14th, 2013, 12:42 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608		Hey Eric...How about those stones we saw along the edges of stream the other day? :) We had three different stones hovering over a slack section along the edge of the river...We couldn't tell if they were coming or going...A few were seen with egg sacs.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: Christmas presents
In Gear Talk by Mcjames		16Jan 10, 2008
by Zap
Re: Headed Up to Michigan Tomorrow
In General Discussion by Motrout		7Jul 30, 2012
by Strmanglr
Re: Stoneflies
In the Identify This! Board by Sayfu		4Aug 5, 2012
by Entoman
Re: Second opinions on this one's ID?
In Male Rhithrogena morrisoni Mayfly Spinner by Troutnut		3Jul 5, 2017
by Crepuscular
Re: More from Derwent, UK
In the Identify This! Board by Sglidster		1Feb 23, 2012
by Troutnut
Re: what is this fly?
In General Discussion by Jlw_5178		6Apr 22, 2010
by Jlw_5178
Re: identification needed
In Rhithrogena impersonata Mayfly Nymph by Kinza		2Feb 6, 2017
by Crepuscular
Re: Sulphurs
In Fishing Reports by Wbranch		1Jun 27, 2010
by Oldredbarn
Re: Isonychia
In the Photography Board by Crepuscular		4Feb 26, 2013
by Crepuscular
Re: ovipositing?
In the Caddisfly Genus Chimarra by Btopbuckeye		6Mar 6, 2015
by Crepuscular