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> > the dubbing debate 2: to spin or loop?, Page 2

EntomanNovember 2nd, 2011, 6:01 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
LOL :)

BTW - It's Entoman to you, bub! Unless there's more than one of me running around on Troutnut. Spence is beginning to wonder...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnNovember 2nd, 2011, 9:44 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
LOL :)

BTW - It's Entoman to you, bub! Unless there's more than one of me running around on Troutnut. Spence is beginning to wonder...


Kurt,

That would explain a few things, hmmm? :) I just thought you had a special TroutNut "app"..."There's an app for that." Turns out there could be clones...;)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
GutcutterNovember 3rd, 2011, 7:38 am
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
Yes, but it depends on the direction you tie and with which hand.


Also, it depends on where you are tying the fly. Above the equator, clockwise. Below the equator, counterclockwise. On the equator, either way is fine.
Those Patagonian fish reject all clockwise spun loops...
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
TNEALNovember 3rd, 2011, 7:59 am
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278
That's why I prefer the Coriolis twist when dubbing; you're covered no matter where you are......
SayfuNovember 3rd, 2011, 8:41 am
Posts: 560
Above the equator?..thread is hanging down from the hook at the tail end of the fly. You are going to wrap away from yourself over the hook creating the body taper. Which way do I twist the dubbing on the thread to tighten the dubbing as I wrap forward?..clockwise, or counterclockwise?
OldredbarnNovember 3rd, 2011, 11:42 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
It is odd how old-school class clowns think alike...I am glad I was busy yesterday afternoon tutoring so you boys beat me to the punch...I hesitated since I'm in the dog-house these days and went off to my tutoring session only to log on to TroutNut this morning to the "coriolis effect" joke...

I have since sent Sayfu a legit discription on how to dub in a vaccuum...;) For Tony, Tim, and Kurt, it's off to the principles office with you Three Stooges! :)

Spence the Wise
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TNEALNovember 3rd, 2011, 12:41 pm
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278
Above the equator you go right handed and clockwise; below it's left handed and counter clockwise.
OldredbarnNovember 3rd, 2011, 12:59 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
You know Tim I think I told Sayfu the opposite in my PM to him, but you know I can't make up my mind sitting here in the office as to what I actually do!? I don't even think about it anymore! I am going to have to go home and sit down at the vice and watch myself! :)

I think if you were actually looking down the thread, my thumbs on top moving from right to left and my index and middle finger on my right hand are going in the opposite direction...I think that is technically counter-clockwise...Damn! I'm second guessing myself here...:)

You know I'm not really sure it really matters much...As long as you always go in the same direction...:)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanNovember 3rd, 2011, 1:11 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Sayfu -

Some guys tie left handed - also, are we looking down the thread or up the thread as it's dubbed; towards the eye or towards the bend as it is wrapped? Your example could still be any of the above. WEW Wew wew wew wew, YA Ya ya.

In the scenario you suggest (assuming a right handed tier, looking down the thread away from the body, and down the shank towards the bend), you should twist the dubbing clockwise, if you want it to tighten as you wrap clockwise. However if you want a smoother looking body (less ropey) yet still tight, dub counter-clockwise and spin the thread counter-clockwise as you wrap forward clockwise to keep it tight. That's how I tie an Adams body for example.

To understand what I'm saying. Grab yourself a piece of yarn and tie it to a hook. Twist it tight and wrap it both directions. Most are twisted counter-clockwise so you'll notice that as you wind it clockwise it will smooth out; wrap it counter-clockwise and it will tighten. Fool around with it awhile, twisting it between wraps or not and notice the different effects.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanNovember 3rd, 2011, 3:27 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Spence - So you confused yourself? Emmmmm. Ah... a wise guy, huh? I love Curly.

Tony - FWIW, I agree with you on the equator stuff. Then again so do toilets. Hmmm.

Tim - does the Coriolis method work well with courser dubbing like seal fur? I had an inner ear issue for awhile that made the room spin...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
TNEALNovember 3rd, 2011, 6:14 pm
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278
With inner ear issues, I've found it best to go against the flow... preserves the integrity of the proper spin.
SayfuNovember 3rd, 2011, 9:35 pm
Posts: 560Wow! The question is...how do you put it on the thread..how do you twist it on the thread to make it tighter as you wrap forward. I don't think it makes a difference, but let's say right handed wrapping forward.
OldredbarnNovember 3rd, 2011, 9:50 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2608
Wow! The question is...how do you put it on the thread..how do you twist it on the thread to make it tighter as you wrap forward. I don't think it makes a difference, but let's say right handed wrapping forward.


Sayfu,

Did you not see my PM to you? If you read the above and can work your way through the attempts at humor we have answered you...Counter-Clockwise. Assuming you are right handed and tying in the northern hemisphere...:) Forget that last part I just couldn't stop myself...:)

Check out Dick Talleur's tying books. Good resource.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanNovember 3rd, 2011, 11:31 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Sayfu -

There is a phenomena that seems to show up on Troutnut at the end of a season and again just before the beginning of a new one. We either get silly with each other or chew on each other. I much prefer the former if it has to happen.:)

...but let's say right handed wrapping forward.

Forget the clocks... Assuming the info in your quote and you are at your vice in the normal manner - the index finger will be behind the thread and dubbing and your thumb is over the dubbing and thread at the front. Drag your thumb across the forefinger towards your palm in a repetitive motion..

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
SayfuNovember 4th, 2011, 9:34 am
Posts: 560I was shown a simple explanation..if you apply the material TOWARDS the bend of the hook you tighten the dubbing as you wrap. That would be applying the dubbing clockwise. As you wrap you create one twist in your thread with each wrap, and that contributes to the tightening of the dubbing. I apply dubbing with the right hand, and apply it counterclockwise, but then use the left hand to tighten the dubbing as I wrap if I want a tight dubbed body. And I always use fly floatant on my dubbing fingers for dry flies as I apply the material. Watched lots of tiers, and have never seen anyone do that. Just made sense to me. I don't often use a dubbing loop, but have for a hairy lake pattern that I've used lately.
EntomanNovember 4th, 2011, 3:40 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
And I always use fly floatant on my dubbing fingers for dry flies as I apply the material.

To each his own, but I don't use paste floatants on small flies (14 and smaller). I prefer a fine grained desiccant powder. The pastes work well at first, but once the flies become saturated the stuff works in reverse, locking the moisture in. If you use powder afterwords it doesn't work as well and you have a gooey mess and hell of a time getting the excess powder off, (unless you want to fish with a white fly that doesn't float well). A neat little trick after catching a fish is to quickly dap the water surface with the fly several times (away from where you want to fish) to snap the slime out of it. I don't know why it works but it does, and far better than swishing it held in forceps. Then I gently squeeze dry it in a kerchief or piece of TP, swish it around in the powder held in forceps, squeeze it again in the kerchief, dip it again in the powder, blow the excess off and it's good as new.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
SayfuNovember 4th, 2011, 5:43 pm
Posts: 560
Absolutely true, and you do have to wash the fly, blow the moisture out, and double haul the heck out of it before re-applying floatant..probably why my shoulders hurt after a day on the water.
EntomanNovember 4th, 2011, 6:01 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Give my method a try and see if it works for you. Your shoulders will appreciate it.:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GutcutterNovember 6th, 2011, 12:04 am
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
and far better than swishing it held in forceps. Then I gently squeeze dry it in a kerchief or piece of TP, swish it around in the powder held in forceps, squeeze it again in the kerchief, dip it again in the powder, blow the excess off and it's good as new.
Regards,

Kurt


I carry a small square of chamois on me for just that purpose. The only thing worse than a white powdered dry fly is a slimed out sinker.
And, try to avoid powdering CDC. It will float the fly, but the effect becomes shorter with each application.
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
EntomanNovember 6th, 2011, 2:05 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Hey Tony,

I agree about the chamois cloths being best (remember the old amadou?). I kept losing them or getting them wet, but always seemed to have dry hankies or TP around. Also agree on the CDC. Frankly, that's why I try to stay away from the stuff if possible. The only thing I've found that really works is to have a bunch of them and when one starts to sink, clean it off real good and replace it with another. I've had a patch with as many as four of the same critter in various stages of drying for rotating through. The stuff's a pain in the ass, but if that's what the fish want...

The only thing worse than a white powdered dry fly is a slimed out sinker.

Slime is bad, but there is something worse. Skunk... I hate it when that stuff gets on a fly. Seems to happen most to experimental flies. When it does, the old ball player in me comes out and I'm too superstitious to do anything but throw it away. If I put it back, it might contaminate the whole box! Horrible stuff...:)

Regards,

Kurt

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
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