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> > You Guys Hate Me Yet :) More pics

DayTripperMay 14th, 2008, 8:31 pm
Northern MI

Posts: 70
Spent a couple hours collecting/photographing more bugs on the Battenkill this evening. There are 14 different bugs I need to find latin names for. I think a few are the same species, but there were some subtle differences so I didn't delete the pics.

I saw the biggest hellgrammite I've seen in my life, and it got away. It must have been close to 4" long! I know where he lives...

Anyways, just click the pictures to enlarge. Body size is shown for each specimen. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Also, sorry for sending you guys to another page, there's just a lot of pics, lol.

http://daytripperblog.com/fish-food/battenkill-river-5-14-08-temp-page/
Shawnny3May 15th, 2008, 4:18 am
Moderator
Pleasant Gap, PA

Posts: 1197
I saw the biggest hellgrammite I've seen in my life, and it got away. It must have been close to 4" long! I know where he lives...


Better hope he doesn't know where you live. Wouldn't want one of those crawling into your bedroom while you're sleeping...

-Shawn
Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis
www.davisflydesigns.com
JOHNWMay 15th, 2008, 5:55 am
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
Alright I'm by no means good at the latin side of things but #4 looks like Isonychia sp.
#3 is (I think) what I know as a Fishfly perhaps (Nigrona-?).
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
DayTripperMay 15th, 2008, 6:36 am
Northern MI

Posts: 70
Thanks John,

I had #4 as an Iso, too. Then #3 as a hellgrammite. The ones that are giving me trouble are 2,5,8, and 14.

I'm pretty sure 8 is an invaria nymph, but it doesn't really have the lighter mid-abdominal segments, or at least they're not as pronounced as a couple of the other invaria nymphs pictured. (at least I think they' invaria, lol)

Here's where I'm at so far
http://daytripperblog.com/2008/05/15/let-there-be-bugs/
CrenoMay 15th, 2008, 7:39 am
Grants Pass, OR

Posts: 288
Daytripper - the Limnephilid appears to be Pycnopsyche and if the other two caddis pictures are of the same specimen it appears to be one of the Hydropsyche morosa group, possibly H.morosa.
DayTripperMay 15th, 2008, 7:56 am
Northern MI

Posts: 70
Thank you Creno! The other caddis is a different specimen. It's a net spinning caddis, not sure what species yet though. The reason the two pics look different is I enhanced the top one a little differently so you guys could see the mouth parts a little better.
JOHNWMay 15th, 2008, 10:09 am
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
Day,
I was leaning away from hellgramite for #3 as I failed to notice any gill tufts at the base of the legs. However I will reiterate that to me the picture reads black ostrich real bugger with short hackle trimmed top and bottom.
And #8 reads to my mind as a "big old Pheasant tail nymph" again teh bain of thinking pattern first over identification. But it is a burden I accept whole heartedly.
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
QuillgordonMay 15th, 2008, 2:22 pm
Schuylkill County, PA.

Posts: 109
DT,
Specimen #15 looks like an Epeorus nymph(clinger).
Maybe 'Epeorus pleuralis........ Quill gordon, but that hatch should be over by now!
John...
Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g.

C/R........barbless
DayTripperMay 15th, 2008, 2:37 pm
Northern MI

Posts: 70
Thanks Quill Gordon,

I was thinking Epeorus, too, but am stuck on a species. This one was only 4mm, maybe it's a juvenile? If you look at color plate XIV in Hatches II, it appears to be a dead match for the Epeorus nymph pictured on the middle-left, but they didn't name what species it is.
TaxonMay 15th, 2008, 3:39 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1290
Alex-

This one was only 4mm, maybe it's a juvenile?


Yes, certainly an early instar nymph. I believe Epeorus to be univoltine, so it's likely the offspring of an early-spring-emerging species.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
TaxonMay 15th, 2008, 5:21 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1290
Alex-

Sample #2 is Anthopotamus, likely A. distinctus.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
QuillgordonMay 16th, 2008, 5:04 am
Schuylkill County, PA.

Posts: 109
Taxon,

Yes, certainly an early instar nymph. I believe Epeorus to be univoltine, so it's likely the offspring of an early-spring-emerging species.
.................................................................
What is the normal life cycle(time) for an 'epeorus' nymph such as this?
Do you have a link for the life cycles of the different families of mayflies; since most of them are different.
Is this particular nymph(size) unusual for time of the year, since quill gordons probably hatched in late april ?
John
Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g.

C/R........barbless
TaxonMay 16th, 2008, 1:49 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1290
John-

What is the normal life cycle(time) for an 'epeorus' nymph such as this?

I believe Epeorus to be univoltine, as the northwestern residing species (E. albertae, E. deceptivus, E. grandis, and E. longimanus) are listed thusly on The Xerces Society CD, Stream Bugs as Biomonitors. Univoltine means they have one generation per year.

Do you have a link for the life cycles of the different families of mayflies; since most of them are different.

No. The only two sources source of life cycle duration information (to which I have access) are the above reference, which only lists Northwest residing aquatic insects, and the book, An Introduction to the Aquatic Insects Of North America, edited by Merritt & Cummins, whose Life History table doesn't list Epeorus among the Heptageniids, at least in the Third Edition, which I have.

Is this particular nymph(size) unusual for time of the year, since quill gordons probably hatched in late april ?

I would think not, assuming it is offspring from an early spring emerger.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
QuillgordonMay 16th, 2008, 4:28 pm
Schuylkill County, PA.

Posts: 109
Taxon,
Thank you for that information.
I was just curious how long the different stages of a mayfly, such as 'epeorus' takes. I think I was surprised to see a developed nymph stage of a new brood that probably emerged/mated in late april.
I thought the 'egg stage' of mayflies was longer than one month' perhaps 2 or 3 months. That is why I asked for a link/reference to mayfly life cycles.
So a nymph like that would spend another year for full development before emergence in april ?
Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g.

C/R........barbless
TaxonMay 16th, 2008, 6:12 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1290
John-

The duration of the egg lifestage varies by species, and is further impacted by water temperature. However, I expect it would average several weeks for mayflies. One exception to that would be Callibaetis, whose eggs are already mature at time of oviposition, after having spent ~5 days (following mating) maturing in the female imago.

Louis-

Am hoping my sharing of this information will not exceed your threshold for sexual specificity. However, I'm probably okay, as I didn't refer to any "organs of origin" by name.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
GONZOMay 17th, 2008, 1:33 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Alex,

Your Perlidae specimen looks like Paragnetina media to me. This is a very common and tolerant perlid, also known as the "embossed stone." You should see them emerging on streamside rocks throughout June.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the pictured Ephemerella nymphs were invaria. Despite the name, the color and markings of invaria nymphs show a lot of variation. On the Yellow Breeches, I see them in brown, olive, amber, and nearly black--all on the same rock.

John's right that your "hellgrammite" is a fishfly larva. The term "hellgrammite" is often loosely used as a common name for both dobsonfly and fishfly larvae. The big 4" specimen you saw would have been a dobsonfly larva (a true hellgrammite).
Shawnny3May 20th, 2008, 3:11 pm
Moderator
Pleasant Gap, PA

Posts: 1197
I appreciate your posting this thread, DayTripper. I'm one of those guys for whom insect ID has always been difficult, and I love these threads where people post bugs and ask what they are. I like to make my guesses and then check them against the experts' IDs. I am quite proud of how many I knew or was close on this time. Even some of the Latin names are starting to sink in.

And I think I'm not alone when I say that you should never feel bad about asking a lot of questions on this forum. That's exactly what it's for. I think the experts on the forum like answering questions (or they wouldn't be here), and there are always many of us who find their answers to questions quietly instructive, as I have.

-Shawn
Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis
www.davisflydesigns.com

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