Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > leader to tippet knots for steelhead

RogueratFebruary 6th, 2017, 6:34 am
Posts: 456
I'm delving into leader/tippet setups for SH fishing this winter and wonder if any TN's have experience with a double-blood knot for tying dissimilar diameter lines. One of my setups is a 10' level leader of 10# fluoro stepping down to 3' of 3X fluoro tippet using a swivel for the attachment point. I'd like to simply knot the materials as an option and the double-blood comes up often as a strong and simple knot.


This is a really new ballgame for me, and a really steep learning curve...switch rod, learning spey casts, and not nearly enough time on the water for things to come together. I tried the 'chuck 'n duck' a few times and its just not for me, either.

Tight lines,

Roguerat


'less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
RogueratFebruary 6th, 2017, 6:37 am
Posts: 456
steelhead knots, addendum-

I should have clarified that as the IMPROVED double-blood knot where the smaller diameter line is doubled then knotted per usual.

Roguerat
WbranchFebruary 6th, 2017, 9:24 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2628
Rogue,

I address this issue in one of two ways; My preferred method to attach dissimilar diameters of tippet is to attach a tippet ring to the actual leader and then attach the tippet to the other side of the tippet ring. Tip; if you decide to go this way don't make the mistake I did the first time I used a tippet ring. They come ten in a package and normally are strung on a large snap swivel or a safety pin.

Do not take one off the snap swivel or safety pin until you have tied the end of the leader to one side of the tippet ring. Then open the snap or safety pin and remove one tippet ring and tie the tippet on. These rings are so small that if you take one off the snap or pin you just won't be able to hold it and still put the leader end through it to tie the knot. They come in two sizes 1.5 mm for trout and 2.0 for steelhead or bass. They are virtually weightless and I even use them on my dry fly leader/tippet set-ups. The weight of the ring won't break the surface tension.

The second method I would use if I lost all my tippet rings would be to employ a double, or triple surgeons knot. I have had much more success with this knot than trying a blood knot for significantly varying leader and tippet diameters.

I am sending you a PM with a link to an Ebay seller. Great price, ten for $2.25.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
RogueratFebruary 6th, 2017, 9:38 am
Posts: 456
Matt-

Thanks for this advice, I pretty much figured you'd be the first to supply experience!

When using surgeon's knots I've had some problems with the tippet exiting the knot at a right angle, and I think I'll have to do some armchair practice on these.

Do you ever use the swivel vs. a ring? Just curious, as a good number of the 'swinging streamer' topics I've found seem to use a swivel.

The latest issue of AA has an article on egg-stealing minnow patterns, and I'm going to do some tying based on these. Sort of an egg-sucking leech crossed with a Muddler or Zoo Cougar, see what happens.

tight lines,

Roguerat

'less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
WbranchFebruary 6th, 2017, 6:16 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2628
Rogue,

When using surgeon's knots I've had some problems with the tippet exiting the knot at a right angle


Duh!! What was I thinking??? Not thinking I guess. I use the tippet ring for all my trout fishing but when I steelhead fish (I rarely swing because the streams are just too small) I use micro swivels made by Spro or Raven. They are super small! sizes are as little as 5/16" long and up to about 7/16" long.

When I fish the Erie creeks and streams I fish one of two ways; either I use two nymphs, swivel, a split shot, and an indicator or I use a bare hook, a trout bead, a swivel, split shot and an indicator.

I tie a micro swivel to a 7 1/2' leader then a tippet to the other end of the swivel, then a short piece of 3X to the upper end of the swivel onto which I attach my split shot, EDIT;then the 4X tippet on the opposite side of the swivel, then the fly or trout bead. If the split shot get snagged often the shot will pull off of the short piece of 3X and I don't lose the fly or the trout bead and hook.

I'll send you a link to buy the micro swivels.

Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
KilocharlieFebruary 10th, 2017, 3:04 pm
Left Coast, North America

Posts: 2
Roguerat- I do not like the double blood knot because it is too easy to goof up when tightening it. I'm using the Albright knot, and am pleasantly surprised with it's strength and ease of tying.

Lubricate your leader and tippet before tying all knots.

When diameter difference is rather extreme, I'll tie a double leader using the Albright knot. Be careful with the doubled section, making sure it wraps up in a neat stack. Do not jerk, or even tug suddenly nor too hard to tighten. Tighten the knot in slow motion to avoid building up heat.

The tippet-to-hook knot I've preferred is the double perfection end loop, so the fly swings somewhat freely on the tippet.

Double the line, make the first loop, position the hook / fly in the 2nd loop, pass the third loop between the other two loops, tuck the fly or hook on the second loop through the first loop and tighten slowly and carefully, adjusting the loop size to about 2-1/2 times the size of the hook eye, then complete the tightening just snug. You can leave it a tiny bit loose and put 5-minute epoxy on the knot for very nearly 100% knot strength.

It is stronger than the Palomar knot, the Trilene knot, the clinch knots, the double turle, and the snell knot. That it allows more fly movement is the big advantage, especially when using bunny leeches girdle bugs, or marabou streamers while deep dredge T-14 rigs in fast current.

To learn the Spey roll cast, draw in some line to about 2-1/2 times the rod length, lift as much line as you can pick up on the backward sweep, pause until the rod loads up (you should feel it tug at least slightly), then go with the forward cast, stopping a bit before your point of aim - the rod will do the rest of the aiming! Experiment with where the stop is supposed to be through several different degrees of angle (the "clock face" in side view). You'll begin to get it. A big "D-loop" with little line in the water is good, a small "d-loop" with a lot of line in the water is bad.

If using a sink tip, stack the sink tip maybe 10 to 15 feet in front of you, the rest bent out in front of that, then back to you. Again, not more than two and one half times the rod length at first. Lift up the line and begin our backward sweep until HALF the sink tip comes out of the water (mark it with a permanent marker when you figure out the exact spot). Pause for the load-up, and go with the forward cast.

There are 7 casts used with the Spey rod, you will probably use the roll cast the most. The upper hand is always the downwind hand - you'll learn to cast either side. Some casts are considered "not" true Spey casts in some literature, but they are useful.

Read www.speypages.com/speyclave/82-spey-basics/14702-spey-basics

Best of luck.
Sharpen your hook. Check it with a 20X magnifier. Always use a new tippet.
WbranchFebruary 11th, 2017, 7:37 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2628
I'll tie a double leader using the Albright knot


Not the easiest knot to tie while standing waist deep in the river.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PowderfingeFebruary 12th, 2017, 2:07 pm
3 corners

Posts: 11
Use a 40# spro swivel on the endof the leader.
double imp. clinch on both ends! the swivel really helps eliminate line twist. speeds retying time drmaticlly!
AdirmanFebruary 15th, 2017, 2:47 pm
Monticello, NY

Posts: 478
Rogue,

When using surgeon's knots I've had some problems with the tippet exiting the knot at a right angle


Duh!! What was I thinking??? Not thinking I guess. I use the tippet ring for all my trout fishing but when I steelhead fish (I rarely swing because the streams are just too small) I use micro swivels made by Spro or Raven. They are super small! sizes are as little as 5/16" long and up to about 7/16" long.

When I fish the Erie creeks and streams I fish one of two ways; either I use two nymphs, swivel, a split shot, and an indicator or I use a bare hook, a trout bead, a swivel, split shot and an indicator.

I tie a micro swivel to a 7 1/2' leader then a tippet to the other end of the swivel, then a short piece of 3X to the upper end of the swivel onto which I attach my split shot, EDIT;then the 4X tippet on the opposite side of the swivel, then the fly or trout bead. If the split shot get snagged often the shot will pull off of the short piece of 3X and I don't lose the fly or the trout bead and hook.

I'll send you a link to buy the micro swivels.



Think I could get a copy of that link as well if you dont mind? sounds great, Thanks :)
WbranchFebruary 16th, 2017, 10:31 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2628
Okay, here it is. They come in four sizes, small to 4X small.

https://www.fishusa.com/product/Raven-Micro-Swivels
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PaulRobertsFebruary 16th, 2017, 10:44 am
Colorado

Posts: 1776
There are a number of high quality high break strength swivels out there now. They are really tiny. Spro make quality stuff.
RogueratFebruary 16th, 2017, 10:50 am
Posts: 456
Matt-

thanks much for the link to the swivels, I need to try these next time out. There are steelhead-specific commercial furled leaders with a swivel built in, that is another clue to their efficacy for streamer use.

tight lines, all, and we're looking at near-record high temps in W MI this coming weekend, good time to be on the water!

Roguerat
AdirmanFebruary 26th, 2017, 4:31 am
Monticello, NY

Posts: 478
Thank you Sir :)

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: furled leaders, redux
In Gear Talk by Roguerat
7Mar 3, 2013
by Sayfu
Re: Double Surgeons Knots Are Breaking
In General Discussion by Mshumrick
12Aug 15, 2017
by PABrownie
Re: Knots.. Which one??
In Beginner Help by Bmark0610
9May 15, 2015
by Jbehrendt
Re: Knots
In General Discussion by Mntman888
5Apr 30, 2015
by Martinlf
Re: Your thoughts on fly clips?
In Gear Talk by Barbaube
2Feb 18, 2020
by Wbranch
Re: Furled Leaders
In Gear Talk by Ov10fac
1Mar 20, 2020
by Martinlf
Re: Steelhead Report/Leader formula
In General Discussion by Goose
4Oct 7, 2011
by Sayfu
Re: I forgot how to tie on a sack of egg row (salmon) to a hook, can anyone help?
In General Discussion by Dddhart
2Oct 8, 2011
by Sayfu
Re: Questions about leaders and tippets
In Beginner Help by Cptenn94
8Apr 30, 2015
by Wbranch
Re: New flyline set up
In Gear Talk by David82nd
16Jun 12, 2017
by Wbranch
Most Recent Posts
Re: A Good Food Vacuum Sealer Machine Doesn’t Have to Cost a Fortune [Spam correction: Yes it does.]
In Gear Talk by Randyspring (Roguerat replied)
Re: New stream side friends
In the Photography Board by Rfberan (Jmd123 replied)
How to tie a fluttering stonefly dry fly
In Fly Tying by Coha
Ray Bergman’s Gravesite
In General Discussion by Adirman
Re: When the hatch don't match
In General Discussion by Red_green_h (Troutnut replied)
Re: Ray Bergman quote
In the Photography Board by Adirman (Partsman replied)
Re: Armstrong & Nelson's Spring Creek
In Fishing Reports by Wbranch (Adirman replied)
Re: Long-time reader, never-time poster? Start here!
In General Discussion by Troutnut (Martinlf replied)
Re: Trico Spinner, as requested
In the Identify This! Board by Gutcutter (Partsman replied)
Re: any tips on the UP of Michigan?
In General Discussion by Roguerat (Partsman replied)