Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > Last summer while fishing on the Henry's Fork in Idaho.....Is it Epeorus Pleuralis???

ByhaughJanuary 13th, 2014, 9:46 pm
Hawaii

Posts: 56
Hi,
Have only seen a few of these out West in Eastern Idaho, not far from Yellowstone Park on the Henry's Fork.

Is this an Epeorus Pleuralis???

Here is the bug:

< />
TaxonJanuary 14th, 2014, 1:24 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1291
Hi Byron-

As can be seen: Epeorus pleuralis is limited to NE and SE N. America distribution. I believe this male imago to be Epeorus grandis, which is present in Idaho.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
CrepuscularJanuary 14th, 2014, 9:14 am
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
nice mayfly!
ByhaughJanuary 14th, 2014, 3:16 pm
Hawaii

Posts: 56
Couldn't possibly be a heptagenia as in the Pale Evening Dun common name?
EntomanJanuary 14th, 2014, 5:40 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Byron -

I wouldn't rule out Heptagenia just yet. For the reasons Taxon stated, this is definitely not a Gordon Quill. We can probably rule out western Epeorus species for other reasons. They (Epeorus) have contiguous eyes (or nearly so), and most importantly lack a transverse mesonotal suture. The costal crossveins usually have some rearward slant to them and are usually paler pigmented. Leg maculation shown in your photo is problematic as well. I have an idea but it would be very helpful if you could provide size and date with your ID requests. Do you (hopefully) remember?

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
ByhaughJanuary 14th, 2014, 9:16 pm
Hawaii

Posts: 56
It was July 6, 2013. It was mid-morning. It was on the Madison, just upstream of the confluence with Westfork. Was a bright sunny day. Insect was a size 13 or 14.

I originally said the Henry's Fork, but checked and it was the Madison.
EntomanJanuary 15th, 2014, 6:07 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Very helpful, thanks. Can't quite make out the type of curvature of the mesonotal lateroparapsidal sutures (near the curved brown lines running horizontally along the top of the thorax) so there are several genera that can't be eliminated with meso suture characters alone. However, I think your second idea is probably the right one. Time of year, coupled with size and location make me think of a couple of species of Heptagenia known locally as Ginger Quills or Pale Evening Duns. Unfortunately, color is not necessarily the best way to tell the species apart, as some can be lighter or darker depending on many things. PED works better with paler and more yellowish varieties, so I'll go with Ginger Quill.:) Here's an example of a Heptagenia specimen very similar to yours. http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/1054

I believe I have fished this spinner fall before but it has been many years. From what I remember, it was a cinnamon looking critter with kind of a pearlescent look to the middle terga (abdominal segments). The legs, cloudy grey stigmatic region (upper leading edge) of the fore wings and pale speckled tails look right too. Is that what they looked like in the hand to you? Bugs look different in blown up pictures...:)

PS. Since you weren't boating through quickly, did you notice any of the duns hatching, mixed with those spinners? Was the spinner fall lengthy and/or prolific?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
ByhaughJanuary 15th, 2014, 2:38 pm
Hawaii

Posts: 56
Entoman,
Thanks for the analysis.
It was the only insect like it that I noticed that day. Sort of a loner.
There were swarming caddis all over and that is what we were using and catching with.
Thanks again.
I did not know that there were Ginger Quills around there.
If you don't mind, what is the latin name for a ginger quill?
Would it be the S. heteratarsale spinner?

Thanks
EntomanJanuary 16th, 2014, 4:38 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
You're welcome, Byron.

Yes, we have many mayfly species commonly referred to as Ginger Quills out West. There are also many back East. Your other question has no answer as there is no direct correlation between the Latin and the common. The reason for this is while scientific names are predicated on the identification of a particular species, common names are applied on the basis of appearance and vary by region. Individual common names are applied to multiple species with similar appearance. Conversely, many individual species have multiple common names to cover their various different looking forms.

Also, the eastern inhabiting Stenonema heterotarsale was synonymized with Stenacron interpunctatum quite some time ago and is no longer a valid species name. Interpunctatum now contains many different appearing forms once thought to be separate species. The list of common names in current use for it does include Ginger Quill and Yellow Quill among others but most popular are derivatives of Cahill, i.e. Summer Cahill, Light Cahill, Pale Cahill, Cream Cahill, etc., etc...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
ByhaughJanuary 16th, 2014, 1:56 pm
Hawaii

Posts: 56
Someone else said it is Epeorus Albertae????
EntomanJanuary 16th, 2014, 2:52 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Whoever said that is wrong, Byron.

As I mentioned earlier, Epeorus species have eyes that meet in the middle and smooth mesonotums. It is a little difficult to make out but your specimen has space between its eyes and a transverse mesonotal suture. Albertae (Pink Lady, Yellow Quill, etc.) has additional features that rule it out. Check out this example: http://www.troutnut.com/specimen/926
Besides smaller size and pale cross veins, notice the banded femora and thick black humeral vein? It looks like a small black dot on the lower leading edge of the wings.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: specie question
In Heptagenia elegantula Mayfly Nymph by Brookyman
4Mar 21, 2013
by Brookyman
Re: New Mexico ???
In Beginner Help by Hankaye
3Apr 19, 2013
by Sayfu
Re: Thoughts on this Heptageniid's ID?
In Male Epeorus vitreus Mayfly Dun by Troutnut
1Oct 28, 2008
by GONZO
Re: fly names
In General Discussion by Konchu
2May 28, 2009
by GONZO
Re: Heptageniidae?
In the Identify This! Board by Willmilne
5May 19, 2009
by GONZO
Looks like Leucrocuta
In Female Leucrocuta hebe Mayfly Dun by GONZO
0
Re: 2 tail
In the Identify This! Board by Sandfly
4Nov 12, 2011
by Sayfu
Re: mayfly common names
In General Discussion by Konchu
10Nov 30, 2006
by DMM
Re: Site updates from October 5, 2011
In Site Updates by Bnewell
1Oct 6, 2011
by Entoman
Re: One should report fishing report even when not much to report...
(2 more)

In the Photography Board by Oldredbarn
15Oct 3, 2012
by Entoman
Most Recent Posts
Re: Fly Tying Vise
In Gear Talk by William99 (Wbranch replied)
Re: Caddis on a zig zag
In General Discussion by TDMunro (Partsman replied)
Re: Rhyacophila betteni group
In Rhyacophila Caddisfly Larva by Creno
Re: This appears to be Dixa sp.
In Dixa True Fly Larva by Creno (Jmd123 replied)
Re: The boys were back in town, Chapter 4 part II
In the Photography Board by Jmd123
Re: The boys were back in town, Chapter 4: new digs, new waters, new fish!
In the Photography Board by Jmd123
Psocodea
In Psocodea Insect Adult by Creno
Rhyacophila hyalinata group
In Rhyacophila vocala Caddisfly Larva by Creno
Re: Don't think it is Gumaga........
In Lepidostoma Little Brown Sedge Larva by Creno (Troutnut replied)
New Instagram account
In Site Updates by Troutnut