Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > switch rod time

RogueratNovember 12th, 2015, 1:19 pm
Posts: 445
After casting my buddy's Sage switch rod (he's got $$$$, I've got $) on a couple outings I went ahead purchased a Cabela's LSi 11'-6" 7-wt switch rod, on sale so I'm starting at the lower end of price-point here. Next comes a Lamson Liquid reel, Rio Switch-chucker or Switch line and I should be fairly well set. Per their spec's either line will handle floating or sinking tips (10-footers) and larger flies.

I plan on casting for larger trout along with steelhead...on the so-called 'dark-side!'

Roguerat

'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
PartsmanNovember 12th, 2015, 8:24 pm
bancroft michigan

Posts: 265
Roguerat, I took the plunge last spring with the echo fiberglass switch rod. I bought two ion reels, one with the rio line, and the other with airfl0 spey line. I'm still working on this and want to Jeff Putmans video on switch rod fishing. My local fly shop nomad anglers did a class a few weeks ago on switch rod casting, but I had to work. Maybe next time. Maybe we can compare notes, I used to fish the rogue with some guys I worked in Lansing, we worked 2nd shift and drive over there after work, I loved that little stretch downstream from Jericho rd. Enjoy the adventure, Mike.
RogueratNovember 13th, 2015, 9:55 am
Posts: 445
Mike- and anybody else who wants to visit or revisit this fine stream in W MI- these aren't secret honey-holes by any means, local anglers are there in pretty good numbers most of the time.

Switch-rods
- I've been scouring YouTube and all for switch-cast tutorials, information overload at this point and I need a break.

The Rogue
- from Jericho down to Childsdale is great but tough wading, a good 3/4 mile stretch of rocks and riffles...below that Packer Drive and 'the birches' is also good for steelhead and migratory Browns.

Above the dam at 10-Mile the best places I've fished were Summit Ave at 12-mile which is prime trout water- they aren't big but they're there in numbers and selective enough to make fishing a challenge at times (don't want it TOO easy). Grange Ave and Friske Road would round out the best spots- pull up a Google map and mark these!

Sadly, I was on my freestone home water only twice this past season; I'm heading north more and more often to find sand-bottom streams and easier wading for my broken and rebuilt ankles, and sand makes falling in more cushy...fewer rocks to land on.

Mark aka Roguerat

'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe

RogueratDecember 11th, 2015, 5:54 pm
Posts: 445
Switch rod, redux-

I picked up my Lamson Liquid 4 reel today, along with a Rio Switch Chucker 7 wt line and a 10' fast-sink leader to round it out. I know 'they' say don't practice casting on the water but that's the route I plan on taking, getting used to a really long rod with a heavy-head line while slinging big streamers into the Muskegon for steelies.

progress report later when I've had some time on the water.

Roguerat

'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
WbranchDecember 11th, 2015, 9:49 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2557
I have a question about switch weight lines - if you have a rod rated for a WF#6 is that the line you use or do you use a heavier line to achieve those neat 75' roll casts I see on You Tube? I thought I saw a video where the guy recommends a line size two heavier than whatever is listed on the rod butt.

I bought what I guess would be considered the low end in the length department switch rod. Two years ago I bought a Redington 10' 6" #6 switch rod. I knew it was a shorter switch rod but the steelhead streams I fish are no wider than 75 feet and most are no wider than 50'. At the time I bought the rod primarily as a high stick nymph rod and it has performed very well nymphing with an indicator and two flies but now I would like to start swinging flies on a wider river and would appreciate input on what line to buy and explain leaders to me, specifically what is a Versi leader?

Do you use a floating line or a sink tip line? The water I plan to fish is mostly riffle water of moderate flow with glides about 3' - 4' deep. Some runs and pools are probably 5' - 7' deep.

Are tube flies more effective than traditional, old school, hairwing or marabou wing steelhead flies? I have a couple of hundred of them and don't like the idea of needing to tie more flies.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
RogueratDecember 12th, 2015, 5:23 am
Posts: 445
Matt-

I'm a rank novice at this and I'll try to answer what I can; more knowledgeable Troutnuts need to weigh in on this, please.

BUT

Switch (and spey) lines are matched to rods by grain-weight of the line. My Cabela's LSi 7 wt (also low-end investment) can carry a line within a window of weight, minimum to recommended maximum. I'm using a floating line, extremely heavy weight forward (the head dia. is massive...I was shocked at the difference between a 7 wt switch line and my regular 7 WF fly-line). I'm using a Rio Skagit sink-tip on the end, 10-foot fast-sink and then plan on 3' or so of fluoro tippet to the fly.

Versi-leaders...I've seen these in catalogs and on display at the shops, haven't looked into them.

That's as much as I know, at present.

Roguerat
AfishinadoDecember 12th, 2015, 8:58 am
SE PA

Posts: 71
The rule of thumb for choosing a switch line is the head should be approx. 3X the length of the rod. Example: 11' switch rod = 33' head.

The grain weight of line has nothing to do with the single hand line weights we all know:

3wt. 200 - 275 grains / Single hand (100gr)
4wt. 250 - 325 grains (120gr)
5wt. 300 - 375 grains (140gr)
6wt. 350 - 425 grains (160gr)
7wt. 400 - 500 grains (185gr)
8wt. 450 - 550 grains (210gr)
9wt. 500 - 600 grains (280gr)
WbranchDecember 12th, 2015, 10:38 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2557
The rule of thumb for choosing a switch line is the head should be approx. 3X the length of the rod. Example: 11' switch rod = 33' head.

The grain weight of line has nothing to do with the single hand line weights we all know:

3wt. 200 - 275 grains / Single hand (100gr)
4wt. 250 - 325 grains (120gr)
5wt. 300 - 375 grains (140gr)
6wt. 350 - 425 grains (160gr)
7wt. 400 - 500 grains (185gr)
8wt. 450 - 550 grains (210gr)
9wt. 500 - 600 grains (280gr)


Okay, thanks but are these heads you loop to loop to a thin running line or are they traditional fly lines but heavier? Also are they floaters or sinkers? Can't I use a floating line with one of those Versi leaders?


Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
RogueratDecember 12th, 2015, 11:48 am
Posts: 445
I went to Rio's website and found a page titled 'making sense of switch rods and lines'; this was greatly helpful in sorting through the grain-weight and head-type process, and why I landed on the Switch Chucker line for my 7 wt rod.

The chucker is an integrated line (running line and head are all one piece) but there's information on shooting head selection, running lines, and sink-tips as well- this is the loop-to-loop stuff Matt's referring to. Scandi, Skagit, F/S heads, and running lines- lots of informative material to soak up.
It's Rio-specific but I think the weights and types transfer to other brands such as Airflo and so on.

It's a good place to start, IMHO.

Roguerat
WbranchDecember 12th, 2015, 2:44 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2557
Let me re-phrase my question - since it appears the switch lines have a bigger (thicker ) belly than conventional WF lines I think I could use a WF#8 on my #6 rod and maybe get an effect close to a real switch line. I just don't want to spend $80 on a line I use a couple of times a season.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
RogueratDecember 12th, 2015, 4:37 pm
Posts: 445
Matt-

I'm not sure on this; I checked the AFFTA approved flyline weight specification just now and it looks like 8 wt conventional fly lines have a grain window of 202-218 grains for the first 30' of line, while a 12 wt is 368-392 grains and close to 350-425 required to load a 6 wt switch rod per the table Afishanado gave- and this jibes with the info on every site I've seen.

So it would take a 12 wt conventional line to properly load a 6 wt switch rod..?

Troutnuts, give a holler if this makes sense...

Roguerat
EntomanDecember 12th, 2015, 10:01 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
The confusion lies at the feet of the tackle industry. Line designations for single handed rods are based on the weight of the first thirty feet of line as established by AFTMA using the number system we are all now familiar with. Spey lines also use a number system, but it's based on use - not weight. Confusing, I know...

Before the ascendency of the Spey rod in NA Salmon/steelhead circles, anadromous salmonid fishers described their single handed rods according to AFTMA weight standards. A six weight designation was looked at as a light rod, 8 wt. rods as medium, while the ten weight rods were the heavyweights for throwing big 1/0 irons and up. When the Spey rod revolution took off it was decided by "those that be" (in a remarkably mysterious example of simultaneous group think) that the best way to promote the new tackle was to poach the AFTMA line numbers of the popular outfits. The belief was that this would be a better way to promote the new tackle as using the real AFTMA weight system would have a hard time blowing through entrenched standards of proper use. Trying to convince anglers that a 12 wt outfit was actually a light rod was considered too hard a hill to climb, I guess. Using AFTMA standards wasn't practical anyway as the weight of the first thirty feet of line is irrelevant for describing lines (and the rods they were designed to load) with bellies of 60 ft. or more.

True single handed lines are not meant for proper Spey casting anyway. Even with enough weight in their short heads to load the rods, their transitions are way to short and their running sections are much too small in diameter for effective use.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
WbranchDecember 12th, 2015, 11:42 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2557
So if I expect to have any successes I need to suck it up and buy a line specifically designed for my 10' 6" #6 rod.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
EntomanDecember 13th, 2015, 7:31 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Well, you're good enough to catch fish with string tied to broomstick if need be. Proper tackle is certainly more pleasant and efficient, though. As for the 8 wt AFTMA line, it won't come close to loading a 6 Spey. Even a 10 wt would be on the light side.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanDecember 13th, 2015, 7:54 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Personally, I'm not a big fan of switch lines & rods. While they are capable of impressive shooting and are generally easier to master for beginners, there's too damn much line handling. The same distance can be achieved with a mid Spey line and longer rod without a half dozen coils in the hand. Once mastered, the casting is much more pleasant and graceful. Stripping in that extra 20 to 30 ft of line every cast gets tiresome and tangles are much more frequent. The longer rods are also much better at drift control. The distance per cast is also less consistent with switch outfits. The latter is very important for properly swinging through a run.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
AfishinadoDecember 13th, 2015, 8:42 am
SE PA

Posts: 71
So if I expect to have any successes I need to suck it up and buy a line specifically designed for my 10' 6" #6 rod.


Hey Matt,

That short rod (relative to spey/switch rods) can work for you as a single hand, two hand or spey casting.

I suggest you get a integrated switch line for it. I have the Rio Versi-tip and it works well for me for TH salt water fishing, but an integrated line (without loop attachment) should work best for what you want to do with the rod.

Rio and SA make switch lines, but I'm most familiar with Orvis (made by SA). The Orvis Access Switch line should work for you and it's only $59. Most times I suggest anglers choose a line heavier with this switch line, but it depends on the rod. Try a 7wt Switch line (380gr) for your rod. Give it a fling...good luck.

Here is the link: http://www.orvis.com/p/access-switch-line/6t8y
WbranchDecember 13th, 2015, 3:43 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2557
Afishinado,

That short rod (relative to spey/switch rods) can work for you as a single hand, two hand or spey casting.

I suggest you get a integrated switch line for it. I have the Rio Versi-tip and it works well for me for TH salt water fishing, but an integrated line (without loop attachment) should work best for what you want to do with the rod.

Rio and SA make switch lines, but I'm most familiar with Orvis (made by SA). The Orvis Access Switch line should work for you and it's only $59. Most times I suggest anglers choose a line heavier with this switch line, but it depends on the rod. Try a 7wt Switch line (380gr) for your rod. Give it a fling...good luck.


My buddy gets the Orvis Pro Guide discount so that line will cost me $$35 + tax. At that kind of discount I'll see if they have any upgrade lines.

I'm leaving for 2-3 days on the Cattaruagus Creek in NYS in a few hours. I'm going to try that 10' 6" rod. I've used it often before and mostly as a single hand rod. I can roll cast with a WF#7 40' easily and overhead casting, with just one haul shoot it out 65'-70', two hauls close to 85'. How much more do you need? One issue I don't like single handing overhead is that big ass fly (#2 with a bead head) is zipping back and forth pretty close to my head.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: I'll trade you TWO fly lines(or flies, or whatever for one Fly line!
In Gear Talk by Nijimasu
2May 17, 2018
by Subway
Re: Sink Tips
In General Discussion by Keystoner
3Oct 26, 2011
by Softhackle
Re: Advise on a switch rod
In Gear Talk by Noobrich
2Nov 21, 2018
by Partsman
Re: Silk Fly Line For Sale
In Gear Talk by 0weight
2Nov 8, 2015
by Crepuscular
Re: I need to know a few things.
In Beginner Help by Vunderkind
5Nov 4, 2012
by Cutbow
underlining Loomis Whisper Creek
In Gear Talk by Halperin
0
Re: Rods/Weight Designation
In General Discussion by Lastchance
5Sep 21, 2012
by GONZO
Re: new
In General Discussion by Greenwolly
1Aug 14, 2009
by Flytyer0423
Re: Spey Rods
In Gear Talk by Jjlyon01
3Oct 26, 2008
by Trtklr
Re: steelhead rods
In Gear Talk by Ashtonr
4Oct 20, 2015
by Wbranch
Most Recent Posts
Re: Shiawassee River (Michigan)
In General Discussion by Brian314 (Strmanglr replied)
Re: Pretty float down the Yakima Canyon
In Site Updates by Troutnut (Martinlf replied)
Re: Skwala question
In Skwala Stonefly Nymph by Gillybilly (Leskorcala replied)
Re: Salmon smolt
In the Photography Board by Wbranch (Troutnut replied)
Re: Little Manistee
In Fishing Reports by Summer_doug (Troutnut replied)
Re: Nymph ID please help
In the Identify This! Board by Cherylkorca (Leskorcala replied)
Madison-Gallatin Trout Unlimited -TroutFest 2020
In General Discussion by Mikemac1
Re: Trout Unlimited, who are they?
In General Discussion by Red_green_h (Wbranch replied)
Re: Need help ID Nemoura nymph
In the Identify This! Board by Cherylkorca (Millcreek replied)
Re: Caught a nymph on a Nymph?!
In the Identify This! Board by Btbo32 (Wbranch replied)