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SayfuAugust 2nd, 2013, 12:03 pm
Posts: 560tippet to fly knot, the unimproved clinch knot.
I have quit digesting the results of knot tests regarding the knot used to tie a fly to your tippet, being the results conflict so much from one test to another, and accepted year's ago these results of the clinch knot: if you improve the clinch when it breaks it will break where you bend it back through improving the knot. AND, if you do not improve it, and snug the knot up tight in your hand, and it does not slip out in your hand it will not slip out when using it. That has been my experience fishing it, and use the not exclusively for several reasons. I have never broken off a fish at the knot. Secondly it is very easy to tie, and most importantly to me is the fact I can tie it with very little tag left over to trim off meaning I can tie more flies to a tippet without having to tie on a new tippet producing less down time. But I also seldom rely on much mechanical reel drag rather relying on rod angle, and finger pressure.
MartinlfAugust 2nd, 2013, 1:45 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		I often used the clinch for the same reasons for years, and Gary Borger was a champion of this knot over the improved clinch unless the hook wire was a lot bigger than the tippet. IMHO, it's a better knot than the improved clinch when the tippet size and hook wire are compatible. It will slip with too big a hook. To each his (or her) own. :)

Oh, one place where all the tests seem to agree--the Double Davy is one of the strongest knots. This doesn't matter so much at times, but for some applications I think it can be a boon.

Tight lines!
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
SayfuAugust 2nd, 2013, 3:03 pm
Posts: 560Martinlf..Your point on hook/unimproved knot leader diameter relationship is well taken. Not that long ago I demonstrated the knot in the local fly shop, and how to tie it with minimal tag end needing to be trimmed, and the employee pulled out a large hook to demonstrate with. My knot slipped every time I tied it, with no knowledge as to why it was happening.
FalsiflyAugust 2nd, 2013, 4:11 pm
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 661		Perhaps this will help untangle some of the knottiness.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/9/3/065/fulltext/
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
MartinlfAugust 2nd, 2013, 5:51 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		Yes, OK, now I get it.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
EntomanAugust 2nd, 2013, 6:29 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604		Wow, Alan! My eyes are still uncrossing... Think I'm gonna tie up a Gordian for testing.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
SayfuAugust 2nd, 2013, 8:41 pm
Posts: 560Huh? The key for me was the realization of how much pressure I apply to the tippet through the pressure of the rod, and it isn't much. Take a 5 wt rod, and you can't pick up a 3 lb bucket of rocks fully flexed. I just never reach the lb breaking point of the knot with the rod. Hook up in the bushes, or on some bank grass, and I can't break off under the flex of the rod, but I can easily break off the grass stem, or the knot, usually the tippet connection, and not at the fly with a straight line pull.
MartinlfAugust 2nd, 2013, 11:00 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		Joshua, if you're breaking at the tippet to leader connection, try the ligature knot. It never, ever breaks for me. Use water to wet it, though. Spit doesn't work. It takes a while to learn, but is incredibly strong.

http://www.orlandooutfitters.com/knots/knot.asp?id=11

http://books.google.com/books?id=7GGxAMPYgDQC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=ligature+knot+fishing&source=bl&ots=xwN02o2ufM&sig=4ZSHT5EhlTyvC6PWgJt4oF0I8xI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k3H8UdjhEre84APA64AY&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=ligature%20knot%20fishing&f=false

Also, referring back to your first post, Sheck (second link) points out elsewhere in his book that a 7 turn clinch will beat a 6 turn clinch every time. Hope that information is of use.

It will only be a little while before Kurt will say, "Here he goes again with his knot mania."
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
GutcutterAugust 3rd, 2013, 11:06 am
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
?..Take a 5 wt rod, and you can't pick up a 3 lb bucket of rocks fully flexed...

Wanna bet?
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
SayfuAugust 3rd, 2013, 2:58 pm
Posts: 560You got my competitive juices flowin. I went, and dug up one of those 5 lb rolls of lead, cut two lbs off, weighed it on my 4 lb scale, and proceeded to tie the butt section of a 9ft 5 wt that I haveto the lead roll. With rod extended near parallel to the ground I lifted, and the rod bent with big time pressure down into the corks, and the lead never flinched. Maybe your 3 lbs. of rocks are lighter than my 3 lb lead. :)
MartinlfAugust 3rd, 2013, 4:05 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3233		Could depend on the rod stiffness, no?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
SayfuAugust 3rd, 2013, 9:03 pm
Posts: 560Rod action may have a slight play, but any 5 wt is designed to load up with 30 ft of line out past the tip. Guys like the tarpon guys that are good at it know how many lbs of pressure their rod can apply, and they use it.

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