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> > Is this a Western Quill Gordon??

Levwood has attached this picture to aid in identification. The message is below.
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Is this an Epeorus species?  Which one?  Found in SW Alberta, Canda
Is this an Epeorus species? Which one? Found in SW Alberta, Canda
LevwoodJuly 20th, 2008, 5:35 pm
Grosse Pte. Michigan

Posts: 11
Could you please help me identify the bug in the attached photo. I
> was fishing last week in SW Alberta on the Crowsnest River. These
> spinners came out at around 9:00 and we fished to them for about an hour.
>
> Vic Bergman at the Crowsnest Angler says it is a Quill Gordon. I
> looked at some of your photos and descriptions. Could it be /Epeorus/
> /
> albertae/ ? I'd say it's a size 16.
>
> Please give it a shot and let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lev
Lev
GONZOJuly 20th, 2008, 7:32 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Looks about right for an E. albertae spinner, though I suppose it could be longimanus. The folks on the Crowsnest apparently refer to the Epeorus hatches generally as Quill Gordons, even though they are not E. pleuralis.
AmosgAugust 28th, 2011, 4:12 pm
Posts: 5
AmosgAugust 28th, 2011, 4:17 pm
Posts: 5Gonzo--correct--I live just north of the 'Crow" and the locals in the pass call them Quill Gordons and don't do no Latin. Your latter two educated guesses are good ones.
GONZOAugust 28th, 2011, 5:08 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Your latter two educated guesses are good ones.

Thanks, but the "education" of those guesses is questionable. I no longer think that this is Epeorus.
TaxonAugust 28th, 2011, 6:05 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1291
Okay Lloyd, I'll bite. So, what think you now? :-)
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
GONZOAugust 28th, 2011, 8:20 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Methinks it's not Epeorus, Roger. (I'll reserve my hunch about what it is for now.)

If this male spinner was Epeorus, the eyes should be larger and contiguous or nearly so. If it was E. albertae, typical specimens would have a dark marks (maculae) at the centers of the femora and a brownish band at the ends, the humeral veins of the forewings would be black, the terga would have narrow dark bands at the posterior margins, and there should be black stripes on the thoracic pleurae. If it was E. longimanus, typical specimens would have distinct dark maculae on the femora and there would be a black diagonal streak at the forward corner of each abdominal segment. Neither species should have the amber suffusion in the lower half of the forewings.
EntomanAugust 28th, 2011, 9:29 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Lloyd -
Methinks it's not Epeorus, Roger. (I'll reserve my hunch about what it is for now.)

Ha! Ditto...:)

I can say that learning from you that certain families can have bi-colored leg sets has alleviated a big issue for me though. Sure would be nice to have a better view of the tarsi, eyes and wings. This is one of those unlucky photos that seems to have every area that could be used for an easy determination blurred out.

Be that as it may, as far as western Epeorus go, this critter isn't even in the same ball park. Besides the features you mentioned, there's just way too much pigment in the veins, especially the cross veins which in longimanus and albertae are clear enough that we probably shouldn't be able to make them out in this photo. The mid and hind legs are way too feeble and the body conformation is all wrong. Unless the model in the photo has very small hands, this specimen looks to be over 15 mm. I could go on, but I think we've made the point.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
CutbowAugust 29th, 2011, 12:24 am
Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38
I think it's a segmented rusty spinner that trout eat! :) But seriously I could only echo the above statements. I have no idea what it is beyond how to imitate it. I will say the eyes could very well be dark given a possible illusion created by a black background behind the hand and bright flash. How many mayflies to we photograph in the dark? Was the photo taken in the dark?
"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"
TaxonAugust 29th, 2011, 1:08 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1291
Lloyd and Kurt-

This thread seemed to jog my memory, so I went back and reviewed my emails from several years ago, and sure enough, for better or worse, I seem to be on record with this one, so I'll share what I thought at the time. :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: FlyFishing Entomology [mailto:FlyfishingEntomology@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 7:11 PM
To: levwood@*********
Subject: RE: What is this bug?

Hi Lev,

... The bug in your attached photo is a male mayfly spinner, and I believe it to be Cinygmula, perhaps C. reticulata.

Best regards,

Roger Rohrbeck

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
SayfuAugust 29th, 2011, 1:34 pm
Posts: 560
Wish I could participate, but do not have the level of bug knowledge that many of you have. I have been tying up, and matching the E Albertae hatch right now, and will be on the SF of the Snake tomorrow matching the hatch. We call them Pink Alberts sometimes called Pale Evening Duns...size #12-14 fast water emergers, light, pale bodied, and best results are tied using pale pink bodies. I see the spinners over the water, but never have gotten a look at them..no interest, other than good to see them I guess. The hatch is never big, but fish sure go for the duns.
EntomanAugust 29th, 2011, 9:08 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Roger -

Ah, perhaps you're right. It's a much better fit than Epeorus, though most Cinygmula male spinners I've seen have pretty transparent middle abdominal segments. I guess I'm having problems with thinking it's any heptageniid at this point, primarily over the legs.

Hi John -

Welcome to the forum! Yeah, the photo looks to have been taken with a flash which will make dusk conditions look pitch black. It is astute of you to mention the effect that time of day has on eye color. Eyes can look entirely different in bright light as apposed to the darkness of evening.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

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