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> Mayfly: Baetidae? Spain

Isidro	March 3rd, 2008, 12:31 pm
Posts: 24	Hello everyone! I'm new here. I'm not a fisher but I like photograph insects. As in mayflies (Ephemeroptera) there are any accessible specialist, I'm very happy for have found this site. Well, I will put here some mayfly, stonefly and caddishfly pictures that I have without identification. The first is this one, that I suppose Baetidae. No posterior wings, two cerci, about 20-23 mm wingspan, the venation is simple. In a village in continental mediterranean climate, at Borja, Aragon, NE Spain. I would be very happy if I can identify my mayflies... Many tyanks!!! P.D. Excuse my poor English :-( P.P.D. I have the list of all Iberian Peninsula mayflies, if it's useful for identification
Konchu	March 3rd, 2008, 1:48 pm
Site Editor Indiana Posts: 505	Which Acentrella (fam. Baetidae) do you have on your list?
Taxon	March 3rd, 2008, 8:58 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Konchu- I'm thinking either Alainites muticus or Nigrobaëtis niger. See this link. Based on the stated wingspan, I am guessing the body length to be about 9 mm, and I believe that would be well outside the length range for Acentrella. Unfortunately, Spain's mayflies don't seem to be in the European Macro-Invertebrate Database, so I'm a bit handicapped there, but I'm pretty sure Alainites muticus is represented in Spain.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Isidro	March 3rd, 2008, 11:49 pm
Posts: 24	Many thanks Konchu and Taxon. It's a pity the thing said by Taxon, and happens with all types of insects: Europe ends in the Pyrenees! Well, the only Acentrella species in Spain is Acentrella sinaica, because the other Spanish species, Acentrella almohades, was discovered in 1999 and is very difficult that I've found a new species ;-) Alainites in Spain are represented by Alainites muticus and Alainites navasi. Nigrobaetis, are represented by Nigrobaetis niger and Nigrobaetis digitatus. I forget to said, that this mayfly was photographed in March. (2007)
Konchu	March 4th, 2008, 9:46 am
Site Editor Indiana Posts: 505	Size probably rules out the acentrella; I missed that detail when glancing over the page. Good call Taxon. To be honest, I am not so familiar with European baetidae, so your guess is as good as mine. Just for conversation: Are there some Pseudocloeon/Labiobaetis that might qualify?
Taxon	March 4th, 2008, 3:02 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Konchu- As mentioned earlier, Spanish mayflies are not in the European Macro-Invertebrate Database, even though mayflies from adjacent Portugal are. So, the best I can do is list the Portugal Baetids: BAETIDAE BAETINAE Alainites muticus Alainites navasi Baetis alpinus Baetis buceratus Baetis estrelensis Baetis fuscatus Baetis lutheri Baetis melanonyx Baetis nigrescens Baetis pavidus Baetis rhodani Baetis scambus Baetis vardarensis Labiobaetis atrebatinus CLOEONINAE Centroptilum luteolum Cloeon dipterum Cloeon schoenemundi Cloeon simile Procloeon concinnum Procloeon pennulatum Procloeon pulchrum
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Konchu	March 4th, 2008, 7:58 pm
Site Editor Indiana Posts: 505	Off the top of my head, I can think of a paper from about 25 years ago that dealt with the mayflies of the Iberian Peninsula, but I am not aware of where to find a copy for distribution. Is this the paper that you mention in your PPD, Isidro?
Isidro	March 5th, 2008, 12:20 am
Posts: 24	No, Konchu, the list that I've mentioned is a part of Fauna Iberica, a project of classify all animals of Iberian Peninsula. There are good books and many of the animal groups are published already, and in Internet we can find the list of species -without taxon details -. Here is the list of Iberian Baetidae: http://www.fauna-iberica.mncn.csic.es/faunaib/arthropoda/insecta/ephemeroptera/baetidae.php We could give finally an identification...?
Isidro	March 10th, 2008, 7:53 am
Posts: 24	Anybody.... ? :-(
Isidro	March 16th, 2008, 10:23 am
Posts: 24	I give it as impossible..??? :-( :-( :-(
Taxon	March 16th, 2008, 12:04 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Isidro- With mayflies, specific identification generally requires microscopic examination of a male imago, and perhaps even dissection. Granted, we often engage in speculation, but this usually regards N. American species with which we are much more familiar. If anyone on this forum had been able give you additional information, I expect he or she would have already have done so. However, I certainly hope you will continue to post photos of your European species, as I (for one) find them extremely interesting, and hope to learn more about them.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Konchu	March 16th, 2008, 3:35 pm
Site Editor Indiana Posts: 505	Taxon: Thanks for mentioning those databases. They were most helpful to help with a small task I am undertaking...
Taxon	March 16th, 2008, 4:05 pm
Site Editor Royse City, TX Posts: 1350	Konchu- You're welcome. Glad to be of some help.
	Best regards, Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
DGA	May 5th, 2008, 9:43 am
Milan - Italy Posts: 1	Hi, I'm a freshwater biologist working on mayfly (but I'm not a taxonomist at all..), reading the thread I thought I could suggest you two useful links. At http://www.faunaeur.org/ you can find a pan European database of land and freshwater animals, you can for instance easily get a list of all the European mayfly species occurring i.e. in Spain or Italy (is updated at 2004).. Another useful link concerning mayfly is http://www.famu.org/mayfly/mfbib.php where you can find the most complete bibliographic list freely available on line with also some pdf files to download, hope you'll find them useful, regards,
	David Armanini
Isidro	May 5th, 2008, 9:50 am
Posts: 24	Thanks David, I know very well Fauna Europaea and I use it very often. But in Ephemeroptera I prefair use the more concrete list of Fauna Iberica, that shows all the species of Ephemeroptera in muy country and in Portugal. The link is posted some messages before for Baetidae family. The complete Ephemeroptera list is here: http://www.fauna-iberica.mncn.csic.es/faunaib/arthropoda/insecta/ephemeroptera/index.php
And	June 4th, 2008, 2:51 pm
Europe Posts: 14	Hello Isidro, in my knowledge, there are 2 genera in Europe that happen to have no posterior wing: cleon and procleon However in some other Baetidae the posterior wing can be very small and difficult to spot without some magnification Andrea
And	June 4th, 2008, 2:51 pm
Europe Posts: 14	Hello Isidro, in my knowledge, there are 2 genera in Europe that happen to have no posterior wing: cleon and procleon However in some other Baetidae the posterior wing can be very small and difficult to spot without some magnification Andrea

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