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> > Getting back into it but line choices have me baffled

Gt2003October 7th, 2007, 8:25 pm
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
I live in eastern Oklahoma and there is a trout camp nearby that stocks browns and rainbows regularly, I think once a month. I've got some friends from work that come down regularly. So, i've pulled out my old equipment, a 6 weight, 9 foot Martin Classic rod and a Cortland Crown II reel. I'm having problems deciding what line to use. I used to fish small ponds for panfish and used an old Cortland bass taper line. So, what lines should I be considering? My buddies all fish weight forward lines. I'm considering the 333 or 444 from Cortland but am open to any suggestions. I just don't want to make a $40-$60 mistake and have to go buy something else.

If it helps, I have a bass pro shop less than an hour away in Broken Arrow. Thanks, Greg
GeneOctober 7th, 2007, 10:26 pm
Posts: 107Greg:

You should get the line weight that matches what it says on the rod. If it says it takes a 6 wt hopefully it will cast well enough with a 6 wt. You don't need to spend a fortune on a line. Aquanova make decent enough lines for the money. I've seen these on sale for under $20.00 on the web. Just do a search in google for aquanova discount lines and see if there is any place near you that sales them cheap. You can also check ebay which has these lines offered by a number of people.

I would get a weighted forward 6 and make sure you have the proper leader attached to it with the right tippet. You didn't mention whether you'll be fishing in the streams or lakes. Let us know and will try and help you out.

tight lines and good fishing

gene
www.flyfisher.com
TroutnutOctober 7th, 2007, 11:59 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2539
I know a lot more about bugs than lines, so I might be wrong, but if I were deciding for myself, and using a 6-weight for trout (a bit big) I would pick a double-taper thinking that it might give me some more subtlety. Could be wrong, though.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
Gt2003October 8th, 2007, 5:18 am
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
I will be fishing in a stream, it's actually the illinois river but it's maybe 50 ft. wide at the widest point and generally shallow, 3-4 feet at the deepest.

Let me know, weight forward or double taper and I'll go from there. Thanks for the advice so far. I appreciate it, Greg
GeneOctober 8th, 2007, 9:38 am
Posts: 107Greg:

There's not much difference from the double taper to the weighted forward. Theoretically the double taper will last longer because you can reverse it when one end wears out (however you can reverse the wf and use it as nymph line which no one in the industry will tell you about). But the weighted forward will load the rod a little quicker and make for better short casts in my estimation.

Use a leader of a total length of around 9 foot; taper it to the heaviest tippet you can get away with. I don't think these are lunkers you are fishing for so try a 5 x. and keep your casts short and keep as much line off the water as possible. Jason did point out it might be a little heavy on the theoretical side but you can get by with it.

tight lines and good luck fishing
gene
www.limestoner.com
SofthackleOctober 8th, 2007, 5:32 pm
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Hi, GT,
My understanding of lines is this: A double taper 6 weight and a weight forward 6 weight both weigh exactly the same "should" both will work with your outfit to some extent. Keep in mind, however that while both weigh the same, their taper is different. It is somewhat common that a weight forward line ONE WEIGHT HEAVIER than specified, will work better with a rod. So, a WF7 may be in order for your 6 weight rod. This has to do with weight distribution in the line and how it functions to load the rod.

Weight forward was designed to cast longer distances, while double taper will cast more accurately, but at shorter distances. Gene is correct that double tapered lines can be reversed and you, virtually have a "new" line. So I consider them more economical.

With all this said, everyone's casting style is different. How one casts the fly rods they own is often a determining factor how well a specific weight line performs on a given rod.

If one of your friends owns a 6 weight outfit I'd ask if you can cast their weight forward line on your rod. If it seems to cast okay, you're in business and can get a similar line. If you have trouble casting out the weight forward line-like the line is very soft or "jello-y" then you may need one size heavier in the weight forward taper.I f you know someone with a 7 weight weight forward line, give a test.

A DT6 should, generally handle quite well with your rod without testing.

I have used Cortland 333 fly line for many years and would highly recommend it to anyone. Cortland currently has them on sale through their outlet store. Check the link below.

Cortland Lines

Mark

"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Gt2003October 9th, 2007, 6:02 am
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
Considering that I'm still quite new to this and that my casts will likely be less than 30 feet, which would be the easiest to cast. What would be the recommendation for a beginner, DT or WF? I am tempted to go back to the bass taper because it was so easy to cast but I don't think it comes in the right weight. Thanks, Greg
SofthackleOctober 9th, 2007, 7:23 am
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Greg,
I would say a weight forward line would be easier to cast. Many "beginner" fly outfits come equipped with a weight forward line and a moderate action fly rod giving the student a slight advantage in feeling the rod load. This is important to timing the forward cast. Casts of thirty feet are easily accomplished using either line. Again, if you can "test drive" a particular weight line on your rod, it will help you determine the correct weight you will need.

Mark

PS-Bass Bug lines are a weight forward line with a heavier belly section and and shorter head section and are generally used specifically to reduce false casting. Based on this, I would suggest a standard weight forward line, not a bass bug taper. The heavier bass bug line has a tendency to slap down to the water and may not be good for presenting your flies.
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Shawnny3October 9th, 2007, 4:41 pm
Moderator
Pleasant Gap, PA

Posts: 1197
The softer presentation with the DT is a nice advantage. Also, at short casting ranges you may not get into the thinner section of a WF line, rendering that aspect of it useless and making the line you are actually using heavy and clumsy. I also find that the loading properties of the line change as soon as you get into the thinner line - you have to make an adjustment at a certain casting distance on every cast. What I mean is that when your false casts get to a certain point the line suddenly starts shooting a lot faster, which can make controlling casting distance in that transition range difficult (it's easy to overshoot or undershoot your target). I would only go WF with large flies at relatively large distances (bass fishing or lake fishing). At larger distances, the WF also helps you cut through wind better (again, a consideration usually only important when fishing open areas such as ponds and lakes). For average stream use I find the WF completely unnecessary, but each fisherman must make those decisions for himself. Some people like shooting a lot of line for the same reason some golfers like to hit really long drives - they'd rather look good than do well. Then there are those few who can cast really far AND really accurately - I hate people like that.

I have one more reason I prefer DT lines - you can flip it around and have a brand new line for FREE. That's a pretty huge consideration if you're planning on dropping serious money into a flyline - DTs are always half-price!

-Shawn
Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis
www.davisflydesigns.com
Gt2003October 9th, 2007, 6:52 pm
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
At the short distances I cast, do you think I will notice a difference between the 2?
GeneOctober 9th, 2007, 10:24 pm
Posts: 107Oklahoma:

I find no real differences in the presentation of DT versus WF. That may have been true 25 years ago but not today with modern fly line tapers. I use many WFs on spring creeks for the most selective of fish and the Wfs perform just as good as DT with the light advantage of loading quicker for short casts which is what you want on spring creeks and most small water because the fish are relatively close. No matter which you buy you should be fine.

tight lines and big trout
gene
www.limestoner.com
SofthackleOctober 10th, 2007, 3:43 pm
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Greg,
I thought you might find these links interesting.

Mark

Lefty Kreh Article

Cortland Line Tech Info


More tech stuff
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Shawnny3October 10th, 2007, 6:37 pm
Moderator
Pleasant Gap, PA

Posts: 1197
By the way, GT, I'm just reflecting on my own limited experience with these lines. These other guys (Gene, Mark, Lefty, and Cortland) I'm reasonably certain know a lot more about it than I do, and you should definitely take that into consideration. Just thought you ought to know who's most likely to not know what the hell he's talking about.

-Shawn
Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis
www.davisflydesigns.com
Gt2003October 10th, 2007, 6:39 pm
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
I've decided on a weight forward line.

I stopped by a fly fishing shop today, told them where I was going to fish and picked up a few flys. Let me see if I can remember some, copper john, some type of midge fly, a chartreuse wooly booger, a hare's ear? and a couple of more that almost look like a small piece of gray thread or yarn wrapped around a hook. Once my line comes in I'll put 'em to the test. Thanks for all the help in advance. Greg
SofthackleOctober 11th, 2007, 5:14 am
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Greg,
Often times, a fly shop can be a great help in selecting equipment and tackle. Glad you made your choice.

Shawn,
that was a great response. Experience, however, is a great teacher, however, and your initial response was every bit as good as Gene's, Cortland's, Lefty's, or mine.

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Gt2003October 12th, 2007, 8:08 pm
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
Wow, how I sway from side to side. After reading and re-reading the posts and looking for the best "deal" I could find, I finally bought a DT6F Cortland 333HT line off ebay for $18 including shipping and handling. I know this is a discontinued line but I like the idea that it is from Cortland and it was easily affordable. I also think thatin my current fishing situation that it will be more than adequate. Hopefully it will be in early in the week and maybe I can test drive it next week.

Thoughts on my purchase?

Also any ideas on some fly choices I might want to try on my 1st outing? I've got 1 or 2 copper johns, a wooly booger in chartreuse, a gray scud(?), some kind of hare's ear and some little bitty ones that I think are midges, they are a very small hook with either a gold or copper colored bead head and a black back with gold or copper wire wrapped around it to where it. They also have what looks to me like a very small piece of tinsel tied in at the bottom part of the back which i assume is a tail. I'm considering purchasing maybe some ant's (sinking), grasshoppers and partridge soft hackles but have no idea whether to fish floating or sinking flies. Any ideas? Thanks again, Greg
SofthackleOctober 13th, 2007, 8:11 am
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
You got a great deal on your fly line! Good choice. Not knowing your area very well, I could not comment on your fly selection other than to say if it were me, I'd select rather generic flies. Hare's Ear soft-hackles, Black Gnat,Olive blue dun-wet perhaps a few attractor patterns like Royal Coachman, wet and Royal Wulff, Dry and maybe a Griffith's Gnat. Also a good Ant pattern.

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Gt2003October 17th, 2007, 6:14 pm
Broken Arrow, Ok

Posts: 25
I got my flyline today. I've got it on the reel and the 9 foot leader attached to it. Do I also need to attach some tippet material? I've got a spool of 3x tippet but am concerned about not being able to cast the line efficiently if I attach too much tippet. Is the tippet material simply to extend the leader so it doesn't have to be replaced so often? Or, If I'm happy with it, can I just replace the leader every 4-5 flies? If I truly need a tippet, I'm considering buying maybe a 7.5 foot leader and attaching a foot or two of tippet to it. Give me your thoughts as I'm totally ignorant of all this. Thanks again, Greg
CaseyPOctober 17th, 2007, 8:01 pm
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
Greg, there are as many answers to that as there are to the eternal question of when you should pinch-hit for the starting pitcher...
the KISS school says, "To begin with, your leader should equal the length of your rod. After a few fly tying actions, your leader might be shorter, so you add some tippet. Tippet weight can be the same or a bit lighter than the leader."
now i will stand aside and let my betters instruct both of us on the finer points of all this. thanks for starting the thread!
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
RleePOctober 17th, 2007, 8:44 pm
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 375
Greg: If you bought a packaged 9' leader, there is really no good reason to attach any tippet to it at this time. The leader as purchesed is designed to be functional right out of the package. The leader you bought is almost certainly tapered from a thick butt to a thin tippet. If you look at the package it came in, you'll likely see the butt diameter shown, probably something like .019 or .021. It then tapers to whatever the "X" designation of the leader is. For example, if you bought a 3X leader, the tippet is supposed to be .008 in diameter. (You can google the X system of leader sizes to see how they work, but it's fairly simple. For each higher number in the X system, the diameter of the tippet decreases by 1/1000 of an inch. Hence, a 0x tippet has a diameter of .011, a 3x tippet is .008 and a 6x tippet is .005) The purpose of the taper is to aid in smooth energy transmission and turnover of the fly when you cast the line. So, I'd say Casey is right when he advises you to not add any more tippet until such time as you have changed flies a few times and hence shortened the existing tippet section. In that way, you can a length of tippet that will help maintain something like the original taper of the leader as purchased. Keeping the leader at exactly 9' is not necessary, but it will make casting easier if you're in that general neighborhood (say within 6" either way) length wise after adding a piece of tippet. It's probably better to be a little short rather than too long. If you add too much, casting and leader turnover become more difficult.

It's all actually a good deal easier than all the gas I expended trying to explain it. When you've used up about a foot or so of the tippet that is on there now, add a piece about 18" long. By the time you tie your knot and cut the tags, you'll be close enough for gov't work...:)
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