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> > Trump's trying to attack fish & wildlife research

Trump's trying to attack fish & wildlife research

By Troutnut on March 21st, 2018, 6:54 pm
News broke yesterday that the Trump administration's latest budget proposes to practically eliminate the Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research units. The Coop Units are extremely valuable partnerships between the state and federal governments and universities that facilitate training of new scientists, keep students and university researchers engaged with the needs of management agencies, and conduct a sizable proportion of the most management-relevant research in fisheries and wildlife science. I earned my Ph.D. in fisheries science as part of a Coop Unit, and so did many of my friends in the field. Our research and career prospects benefitted tremendously from these partnerships, which were supported by all institutions involved including the federal government.

Here's the American Fisheries Society's take on this plan. (They're the largest professional organization of fisheries scientists.)

"Eliminating the coop units" is not an idea that was ever previously on the table under any administration, Republican or Democrat, because they are a shining success story of cost-effective federal spending, matched by the states and universities, to serve the public good. They're a tiny drop in the bucket of federal spending, and they give taxpayers a positive return on our investment. Trying to eliminate them is the kind of mistake that only happens when you put a completely inept and untrained person in charge of some really complicated job. Asking Trump to fix the government was like asking a Kardashian to rebuild your transmission; it just isn't going to work, and they're going to leave a much bigger mess than when they started. A pampered reality TV host with no real-world skills just isn't cut out for work that takes a lot of training and expertise.

Fortunately, the mistake isn't final yet. Congress still has a say, and they're not all insane. Contact your Congressperson, share the AFS link, and make sure they stop this ridiculous idea.

Comments / replies

Page:123
MartinlfMarch 21st, 2018, 7:19 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2785
Grrr. I'll be writing, and Dent is a moderate, so he may help.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
StrmanglrMarch 23rd, 2018, 12:59 pm
Posts: 119Seems the American Fisheries Society is more interested in bashing Trump than speaking to the subject of the funding and it's benefits.
MartinlfMarch 23rd, 2018, 5:08 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2785
Evidence for that claim, Strmanglr? My reading of the report suggests otherwise. Had Trump not proposed a funding cut they would not have written about it. If you want to see real Trump bashing, though, I'd be happy to oblige. He is an ignorant narcissistic idiot who is causing real damage to the country, both physically and morally. And I can assure you that the owner of this forum agrees, and will do so forcefully.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
StrmanglrMarch 23rd, 2018, 7:13 pm
Posts: 119Eliminating the coop units" is not an idea that was ever previously on the table under any administration, Republican or Democrat, because they are a shining success story of cost-effective federal spending, matched by the states and universities, to serve the public good. They're a tiny drop in the bucket of federal spending, and they give taxpayers a positive return on our investment.









Trying to eliminate them is the kind of mistake that only happens when you put a completely inept and untrained person in charge of some really complicated job. Asking Trump to fix the government was like asking a Kardashian to rebuild your transmission; it just isn't going to work, and they're going to leave a much bigger mess than when they started. A pampered reality TV host with no real-world skills just isn't cut out for work that takes a lot of training and expertise.


First, see the emphasis. Is it policy or bashing.

The article admits it's a drop in the bucket.

I work in sales, they have not provided me with benefits to me as a Trout fisherman.

Sometimes our work says they're gonna provide lunch or breakfast.

I always say, don't ever rely on them to provide.

One time, my sales manager said we'll have breakfast for you on our busiest day.

Fruit and granola bars.

I need protein in the morning, eggs, bacon or sausage...

We fish, our rivers are important to us, I'm not gonna rely on the gov to take care of that.

That's niave.
MartinlfMarch 24th, 2018, 5:01 am
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2785
The quotations you put up:
Eliminating the coop units" is not an idea that was ever previously on the table under any administration, Republican or Democrat, because they are a shining success story of cost-effective federal spending, matched by the states and universities, to serve the public good. They're a tiny drop in the bucket of federal spending, and they give taxpayers a positive return on our investment.


Trying to eliminate them is the kind of mistake that only happens when you put a completely inept and untrained person in charge of some really complicated job. Asking Trump to fix the government was like asking a Kardashian to rebuild your transmission; it just isn't going to work, and they're going to leave a much bigger mess than when they started. A pampered reality TV host with no real-world skills just isn't cut out for work that takes a lot of training and expertise.


are not from the American Fisheries Society. They are the opinion of Jason Neuswanger, the owner of Troutnut. And the government has long provided protection for our fish and rivers by enforcing clean water rules, the very rules that Trump and Pruitt have discarded. It's naive to think that Trump is doing anything good, especially for our rivers and fish. He is attacking our rivers as Jason has pointed out in the other thread I bumped up.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Jmd123March 24th, 2018, 7:05 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2192
I would much rather have the government, be it state or Federal, protecting our trout streams, and other natural resources, for the good of ALL OF US. Would private industry do this for us? Would they really care if our precious trout waters got silted in, warmed up, dredged, and polluted, and trout populations disappeared from well-known waters? Of course not, these activities are how they MAKE THEIR MONEY. As in: mining, logging, oil drilling, fracking, industrial farming, and other industries that generate pollution and damage or destroy natural habitats. You would rather trust THEM??

Sorry, I do trust our elected officials to make these decisions and not let "the fox guard the henhouse".

Jonathon

P.S. Trump is easy to bash, he invited it on himself with his big mouth and inability to shut it when necessary. If you are going to "blah blah blah" your opinions constantly, don't expect the rest of us to keep quiet!
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
StrmanglrMarch 24th, 2018, 7:27 am
Posts: 119As I already told one member here, I'm not here to get political. I do that elsewhere.

I've got plenty bad things to say about all parties.

The gov has certainly done plenty good...and plenty bad.

Trust them, never.

As we are seeing now, they don't always do the right thing.

I have nothing more to say in regards to politics.
TroutnutMarch 24th, 2018, 8:33 am
Administrator
Fairbanks, AK

Posts: 2429
The gov has certainly done plenty good...and plenty bad.


Agreed. But it's important not to reject/eliminate the good just because of a blind anti-government sentiment, or the anti-conservation biases of a selfish real estate mogul who hates environmental regulation because it gets in the way of building casinos and golf courses.

The article admits it's a drop in the bucket.


The cost is a drop in the bucket. The benefit to fisheries & wildlife science and scientists is enormous. That's what makes keeping this program such an easy decision that was totally uncontroversial for past administrations of both parties. When you've actually been involved with these programs and work with these people, you learn that "the government" is not just some faceless bureaucracy but a collection of people and communities. Some of these are pointless and wasteful, but others, including the Coop Units, consist of highly competent people in well-designed, cost-effective institutions doing a great amount of good with public resources.

I work in sales, they have not provided me with benefits to me as a Trout fisherman.


Yes, they have. The benefits are just behind the scenes. You just go to a river and see the fish. You don't see who did the decades of research that went into understanding what a trout stream needs to thrive, what kind of regulations might be necessary to preserve decent bug life, riparian habitat, water chemistry, temperature, etc. You don't see who's involved in doing that research or getting the people who actually have power over a stream, from regulators to landowners, to do the right thing for the fishery. And you don't see the terrible state of nearly-fishless streams in some other parts of the world that don't have the same quality of research and regulatory structures we do here. It's all very far from perfect, but we'd be a lot worse off without it.

First, see the emphasis. Is it policy or bashing.


It's both. There are countless legitimate personal and policy reasons to bash Trump, who is one of the most despicable public figures our country has ever seen, and that was true even before he entered politics. He represents the absolute worst side of America, the living embodiment of a trashy supermarket tabloid and every stereotype about the spoiled, selfish, entitled wealthy and dim-witted racist rednecks rolled into one. The man doesn't have a single redeeming quality. He's dumber than a bag of hammers and bad at literally everything except for riling people up.

However, I've limited my major posts on this site to the policy issues on which he has specifically targeted fisheries science or stream ecosystems. But my wording of course reflects my disdain for Trump himself, and it would frankly be dishonest to hide that.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
RleePMarch 24th, 2018, 10:08 am
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 332
I like it when Jason gets cranked up, partially because on these sorts of questions, he says pretty much what I would say, only better...:)

I won't comment on Trump other than to say he is an embarrassment to the country, the Presidency, the flag, human decency, motherhood and no doubt somehow, dental hygiene. He is a 7 year old trapped in the body of a 70 year old. I cannot respect him as a person and certainly not as a President and that is a first for me, regardless of how much I may have disagreed with some of his predecessors.

But enough of that. I wasn't going to comment on Trump...

Just two quick additional observations:

1) I believe it is the role of gov't to be the People's advocate and partner in situations where the common good is threatened by the power of aggregated economic interests. This is necessary to ensure, as best possible, a level playing field and freedom from the tyranny of unchecked market-based ethics. Environmental regulation which grows out of programs and entities like the USF&WS Cooperative Units under discussion here is a legitimate and necessary exercise of government's role as a balancing force in these interactions.

2) I am a Pennsylvanian by birth, attitude, heritage and license plate...:) I have also been a long term activist and advocate for the conservation and protection of Pennsylvania's fisheries. 40-plus years of observation and active involvement tells me it is inarguable that one of the pillars of the improvements we have seen in the quality of our fisheries here in PA has been the work and research of the USF&WS Cooperative Unit at Penn State. I will not stand by idly and allow this to happen to them.

There, I'm done...:)
WbranchMarch 24th, 2018, 1:40 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2286
Rleep wrote;

I won't comment on Trump other than to say


I wonder what you'd be saying if you were commenting on Trump??
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
AdirmanMarch 29th, 2018, 6:59 am
Monticello, NY

Posts: 401
Why does politics have to be discussed here? I though that this was a flyfishing site? It’s offensive when members post attacks, hurl insults and denasebthe President presuming that everybody in here agrees with their sentiments. Well I certainly do not and I’m sure am not the only one. This may surprise you, but Trump won for ALOT of reasons , including the fact that his predecessor did not do a stellar job as our President , to say the least, and I’ll leave it at that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you are free to disagree with EVREYTHING i said and that’s what makes our country great, isn’t it? Leave the politics to political discussion forums I say, let’s talk about flyfishing !!
Jmd123March 29th, 2018, 7:43 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2192
I don't usually quote myself, but here I find it appropriate:

"Trump is easy to bash, he invited it on himself with his big mouth and inability to shut it when necessary. If you are going to "blah blah blah" your opinions constantly, don't expect the rest of us to keep quiet!"

Trump's policies with regards to public lands and private industry DO impact our trout streams, however you may wish they wouldn't. As in, selling off public lands and loosening, if not completely eliminating, environmental regulations and oversight that keeps industry from polluting and otherwise damaging our precious trout waters (and other important fisheries). The climate he has created is one of industrial freedom, including freedom from LIABILITY. Which means when the damage happens WE THE TAXPAYERS cough up the $$$ to clean it up.

He has also appointed an industry shill to head the EPA. Scott Pruitt is doing his utmost to gut and eviscerate his chosen department and fail to enforce any of its laws. They have even dictated language in regards to climate change that is to be used by ALL personnel at the agency. Forget science, it's all about what industry wants now.

You REALLY don't think these policies aren't going to affect your trout streams?? Please re-read my post above for a list of how industrial activities ruin trout habitat. It's a very incomplete list actually...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
AdirmanMarch 29th, 2018, 7:58 am
Monticello, NY

Posts: 401
I respectfully disagree w you
Jmd123March 29th, 2018, 9:17 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2192
I've seen it before - the Bush administration wasn't much better...

The sadest part of all is how politics has invaded EVERYTHING now - religion, science, the Constitution, our daily lives...and it is NEVER an improvement, it just drives people apart and gets them arguing.

Perhaps I should quote a very good friend of mine from Texas (a place I very much enjoyed living):

"The two-party system is meant to keep us divided. That way we argue with each other while they are getting away with screwing us."

Hmmmm, make any sense?

I live in an area that is overwhelmingly conservative. I belong to a wonderful gun club that is also overwhelmingly conservative. Many if not the majority of friends I have in this area are conservative. Almost all of these folks also like to fish, shoot, ski, paddle, ice fish, love to see wildlife, etc. So guess what we always talk about? Oh, and also the Redwings, Pistons, Lions (oh GOD), Tigers, U of M's trip to the Final Four...

But there is a place and time for sharing contrasting views - which are best discussed in a rational manner with proper examples and evidence for your side. What many of us on here see is an administration that seems to be going contrary to our interests. Hey, if Trump says or does something that I agree with I will certainly say so. I like having a President I can support, and I did support the previous one because in part for his environmental policies, though I didn't always agree with him. This one, not so much. Has Trump ever held a fly rod in his hand, while wearing a pair of waders, standing in some beautiful stream trying to tempt a trout? Well, Obama has...and there are pictures too. Just sayin'...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
AdirmanMarch 29th, 2018, 10:02 am
Monticello, NY

Posts: 401
Johnathon, I don’t know if he has or he hasn’t but holding a fly rod in ones hands does not a President make, and if you’re referring to the 1 time when Obama did it, it hardly counts and doesn’t really matter does it? What I’m saying is, you may despise the President which is certainly your right and prerogative. To be honest, I felt the same way about Obama for many reasons that I felt were legitimate and a lot of people happened to agree w me considering who won the last election. However, I don’t disparage others for their views or their support for left of center political positions. You do. It is frankly offensive. Think about it. I’ve read your posts on here for a number of years and know your a great flyfisherman and outdoorsman. I respect you and your position, please respect mine as well. Happy Easter to all
Jmd123March 29th, 2018, 6:51 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2192
"...and if you’re referring to the 1 time when Obama did it, it hardly counts and doesn’t really matter does it?"

Uh, yes, it does. Obama at least tried something that I like very much (as do the rest of us on here). I also enjoyed watching Obama roll up his sleeves and volunteer at soup kitchens and etc. during Christmas time. Many of the President's actions are symbolic and are meant to make the point that he cares about the American people enough to relate to them and their activities and needs. Obama did this...Bush 2 did this...Clinton did this...Bush 1...etc...Trump seems more to want to distance himself from the American people by his "exclusivity" and "pay-to-play" mentality, i.e. only the rich get his attention. I'm not sure how I, as a struggling working person with two part-time jobs, one in private industry and one in the public sector, am supposed to trust and be endeared to someone like him. And BTW, I haven't seen any kind of tax cut yet, what happened to that?

I'm not exactly sure how I am disparaging others by disagreeing. Have I called people names (something that Trump does)? Did I somehow infer that you were less intelligent than me or something? Did I say that your viewpoints are not legitimate? Is that because I disagree with them and feel the need to respond to certain points? I have been in the environmental field for decades, in five different states, and I have seen the environment well taken care of, and the exact opposite. The whole point of this discussion is this:

Trump favors industry over environmental concerns;
Trump wishes to lessen environmental regulations that he feels burden industry;
These environmental regulations were developed over decades as responses to lack of industry responsibility for environmental problems of their creation (pollution, siltation, water shortages, etc.);
Thus, if Trump gets his way, along with his fellow Republicans, industry will be free to pollute and damage the environment more (like back in the '50s - Lake Erie dead, the Detroit River a sewer, Cuyahoga River catching fire...); and
This WILL impact our trout streams.

You are welcome to refute these points in a logical and well-informed manner.

And I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone.

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
AdirmanMarch 29th, 2018, 7:35 pm
Monticello, NY

Posts: 401
With all due respect, you actually are insulting and disparaging of others with an opposing viewpoint , hers whatbin talking about :

Also, BTW, Jason has been involved in fisheries management for so long he now has a PhD in it. YOUR job? YOUR education? Are YOU qualified to discuss the impact of Trump's policies on trout streams? Do you know anything about stream ecology or management? Or, are you one of those "poorly educated" that he loves so much?? Your simple-minded superlatives about Trump (of course, just like he does) show that NONE of the above knowledge do you possess, you're just another dumb loudmouthed GOP Trump worshipper who loves to blather on about things he (or she) knows little to nothing about.

Now, I really can't wait to see what names you are gonna call me. Of which none you would be man enough to call me to my face.

There, did it again, engaged another Trump supporter! Now back to people who have and actually use their brains.
Now, I understand that the other guy on my side was equally insulting and demeaning but you do not have to stoop to his level. Also, like many people on the left who I have debated over the years, you come off with an air of arrogance and superiority , suggesting that people who are truly informed
And educated would never vote for Trump and the people “ in the know “ support the democrats. I resent that. IMHO, Trump is a breath of fresh air after 8 years under the quasi socialist communist regime of Obama who did everything he could to undermine our national security , ruin the economy, stole the flames of racism and discontent and weaken our military. To me , he was an abysmal failure, a terrible leader and a traitor. Good riddance I say and thank God for Hillary’s defeat! But again , that is my opinion. Just sayin
AdirmanMarch 29th, 2018, 7:41 pm
Monticello, NY

Posts: 401
Despite my expressed sentiments above, I do so enjoy your flyfishing posts! Btw, as far as the Trump tax cut is concerned that you called into question earlier, I have received on average about a 300 dollar increase in my paycheck in NET PAY since it’s inception. It’s been good for me and a lot of people in this country!
StrmanglrMarch 30th, 2018, 5:40 am
Posts: 119Oh wow, it's about to get ugly up in here...

Who's got popcorn and beer?
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