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> > euro nymphing leader question

Dale1386April 2nd, 2017, 2:54 pm
Hayesville North Carolina

Posts: 4
Hi guys first post from this hillbilly.....got a question for you euro nymphing guys. I'm fishing some trophy water that has an 18' monofilament max for leaders and i'm fishing a 10' 3 weight rod. That 18' is just a terrible length for me because if i'm nymph fishing my comfort roll cast is putting the leader/fly line loop to loop connection right in the center of my rod and it isn't shooting line good.My Euro nymphing I like to either keep the fly line in the reel or have about couple feet out the tip top. Right now with a couple ft out the tip top I'm not making good roll cast with heavy nymphs. I'm thinking about attaching my 18' mono leader to about a 10'piece of fly line backing and then connect the backing to my flyline. I would connect the leader/backing connection by blood knot and that would do away with that loop to loop connection trying to shoot through my guides. Anybody else ever try that? On my standard euro leader set-up I run 25' of mono butt section and that works great the fly line never comes off the reel unless fish on. Just trying to come up with a better set-up for this trophy water. Have I confused everybody yet?
PABrownieApril 3rd, 2017, 8:00 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
First off, wouldn't the backing be considered leader? So wouldn't that just make a 28' leader?

Im not sure if Im understanding exactly what you mean but here it goes.

First suggestion, run a shorter leader - 10-13' to a .022 level nymph line, its almost as good as running an all mono system and you would have your loop connection outside of guides allowing more fluid casting.

Second suggestion, run a 10 inch piece of butt section off your fly line by nail knot and use knot sense on the knot. At the end of the butt section attach a tippet ring, from that tippet ring you are able to swap leaders by way of clinch knot to tippet ring, whether it be a 18' legal leader, 25' mono rig, 9ft dry leader etc etc.. the nail knot - tippet ring approach allows the fly line / leader connection to pass through guides relatively smoothly, and still allows versatility like a loop to loop allows.

Third suggestion - attach 18' leader to fly line via nail knot and cover with knot sense to allow smooth casting through guides - but you loose versatility and have to re-nail knot each leader change.

Fourth suggestion - Run a true Czech style - short presentation style leader. Fly line - 20" sighter directly off fly line, and then tippet section. This works great for short presentation but mid-long sucks due to obvious drag/sag issues with fly line.


Hope this helps a little?
Dale1386April 3rd, 2017, 9:34 am
Hayesville North Carolina

Posts: 4
Thanks for you reply PABrownie I think suggestions one and four is the method I'll probably go with. I've been trying to make a Czech nymph leader set up work by using a DT3 weight line and it does fine as long as I can use about 25 or 30' of 20 lb test mono for a butt section and then 18" of sighter then appr. 6' of tippet. The fly line then just is mainly used as backing but shortening to 18' complete butt,sighter,tippet has been a challenge to fish. I guess I should just break down and buy some .022" euro nymph fly line to see if that helps. When I'm using the 25' butt section leader I'm holding the mono in my left hand and I can really feel the strikes but holding fly line the strikes are not near as detectable.
PABrownieApril 3rd, 2017, 9:59 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
Not to get to bent up on semantics, but true czech leaders are actually short, usually 10' or less thats why I suggested using a true czech leader so you don't have any fly line in your guides, but a true czech leader is only usefull for super close presentations due to fly line sag.

What your talking about using 25-30' mono is not a czech leader, but rather spanish-polish, and more commonly just refered to as a euro-style leader as it incorporates all european styles combined into one super long leader. Just a little useless background info there.

I totally get what your talking about, my method is to use a short 18" peice of 25lb butt section attached to my fly line to a tippet ring, then I run 30' of 15lb mono to a sighter / tippet for nymphing, then i just swap out the long leader for a traditinal leader at the tippet ring for dry-dropper / dry fly fishing.

If I where forced to have a leader no longer than 18' I would honestly just buy a level .022 fly line and run the 18' off that. Good luck
Dale1386April 3rd, 2017, 2:59 pm
Hayesville North Carolina

Posts: 4
You are dead on with your explanation of what I called a czech leader it is a euro style leader. I used to fix all my fly lines like your method with a short piece of 25 or 30lb test nailed knotted to the fly line with a perfection loop in the end and then just change out to different leader lengths. That was back in the 70's way before tippet rings. I wish I could find some .022" level line reasonable.......if the line reads euro nymph it jumps to $50.00 line or more. My plan is to fish this trophy water with one reel rigged euro style for a while and then if I see action on top just swap out reels to one that's rigged for drys or emergers. I don't like building leaders on the creek bank. To find .022" level line would I look for 1 weight fly line?
PABrownieApril 4th, 2017, 7:38 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
here you go man, 20 bucks..
http://troutlegend.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=28&product_id=78
Dale1386April 4th, 2017, 3:44 pm
Hayesville North Carolina

Posts: 4
yep that'll do it. I'll order some. Thanks
WbranchApril 12th, 2017, 6:12 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
Wow! all of the above is so very foreign to me that I have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Is American nymphing dead? Will the trout know I'm not drifting my fly in the Polish, Spanish, Czech manner and turn their nose up at my humble offerings?
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
FalsiflyApril 13th, 2017, 5:47 am
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 656
I'm with you Matt. I hear that the Euro style is loosing to the newer Brexit style.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
PABrownieApril 13th, 2017, 11:15 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
The name doesnt matter, Joe Humphreys was czech nymping, before anyone here knew what czech nymphing was, the names just let you describe different methods of fishing a "contact" style nymphing presentation without the use of indicators.
PABrownieApril 13th, 2017, 11:16 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
If your actually intrigued by any of it, check out George Daniels book Modern Nymphing
WbranchApril 13th, 2017, 1:48 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
Dear PABrownie,

If your actually intrigued by any of it, check out George Daniels book Modern Nymphing


To tell you the truth I have virtually no interest in any European nymphing techniques, Tenkara, or light line (#3-#5) switch or nymph rods.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PABrownieApril 14th, 2017, 5:31 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
To each there own
WbranchApril 14th, 2017, 5:10 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
What I do like, and pursue, are big trout rising to little flies.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PABrownieApril 17th, 2017, 6:17 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
I think that's unanimously liked by everyone wbranch!
WbranchApril 17th, 2017, 8:47 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
Yes, I guess you are right. I seldom cast though unless I see a rising fish. Retirement has given me the luxury to fish at least 100 days a year and the freedom to wait for fish to rise.

I don't want you to think I am an elitist though as I will actively pursue steelhead with a sunken fly.

Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PABrownieApril 17th, 2017, 8:50 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
No judgement here, whatever you like to do is of no business of mine, cant deny the excitement of fishing to rising fish
WbranchApril 17th, 2017, 8:57 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
Back in the day when I was in my 20's, 30's, and 40's, I used to love to nymph. I guess I just got tired of it. The waters I prefer to fish don't have thousands of trout per mile and they are quite wide. So there is a strong chance I may be nymphing water that is barren of fish. At least when I float in the Hyde I can look for rises and feel confident there are fish where I am casting.

There is a huge difference in nymphing western waters with multiple thousands of trout per mile versus eastern waters that might have 500 trout per mile.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PABrownieApril 17th, 2017, 10:21 am
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
I dont have the low trout count issue, Lil j & spring are my home waters. Plenty of fish looking for an easy meal.
WbranchApril 17th, 2017, 3:08 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2524
Yes, you are fortunate. Narrower wild trout venues with high trout per mile counts. My "home" waters is the Delaware system. I used to live in NJ and the Delaware, it's branches, and the Beaverkill and Willowemoc were only 2 1/2 hours away. Now they are 3 1/2 hours. But I have a cabin on the WB. While I would suggest there are many more bigger 18" - 21" trout and to some extent really large 22" - 25" trout on the system rivers compared to the two rivers you mention there are far fewer fish per mile of river.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
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