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Kschaefer3April 20th, 2016, 1:19 pm
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
I found an 8'6" 5 wt Winston IM6 for sale for a very reasonable price. I sent a message to the seller and said consider it sold. The individual sold it out from under me (apparently not on purpose). I am very disappointed as I was really looking forward to owning a rod with the classic "Winston feel" I hear so much about. I would still like an older rod with that nice classic dry fly feel, the way I expected this rod to feel.

Can people please offer suggestions? I know many folks are fans of the Sage LL series. Any others? Also, in the LL series, which rods are considered to be good?

Also, is anyone trying to sell a nice softer action 4 or 5 wt?
Kschaefer3April 20th, 2016, 1:23 pm
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
I should also mention that I am not only in the market for a classic rod, just something with that feel. I believe Eric mention T&T rods at one point, so maybe those are an option too.
RleePApril 20th, 2016, 3:02 pm
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 397
Kyle: I'm not much of a rod brand connoisseur, but here's what little I do know neatly packaged in a suggestion to take a look at a single discontinued series from a single manufacturer...:

The rods that Orvis built and marketed as their Premium series during the 80's and early 90's were softer action, slower rods that were (IMO anyway...) very pleasant to fish with. I can't remember all the names of all the various rods that were in this series. Two that stick in my memory (because I bought them..) were the Far & Fine (7' 9" 5 wgt) and the 7/11 (7' 11' 4 wgt.) I'm sure they made longer rods from the same graphite that had essentially the same actions.

You might want to find somebody that owns one of the older Premium series Orvis sticks and see if that is the sort of feel you are looking for in a rod. If it is, there is probably a pretty good market for these rods with decent availability and you'd be able to find one pretty easily. They were very popular in their day before fast graphite became all the rage, etc.
WbranchApril 20th, 2016, 7:53 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2613
Kyle,

The old school Sage LL series is truly the rod you would like. It had a very nice Struble nickel silver up lock reel seat with very nice wood. I just sold a 8' 9" #3 that I built with a Bellinger blackened n/s cap and ring with a stabilized rosewood insert for $400. I still have a Sage LL factory rod 9' #4 2 piece that I bought new around 1991. I've not fished it for at least fifteen years but every year I say "I think I'll fish it this year".

Check out auctions on Ebay for older Winston or Sage rods. Also Craigslist is good. I've sold many rods there. Look into the Fenwick HMG rods. They were very nice mid action rods. At one time I had half a dozen of them but they are long sold.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PartsmanApril 20th, 2016, 10:11 pm
bancroft michigan

Posts: 302
Kyle, check out the fiberglass flyrodders website, and the fiberglass manifesto blog. There are some new fiberglass rods being built that are beautiful to look at and to fish with. I have a Steffen 3/4 wt. I built this past winter that is really a great rod. I also have a epic 5 wt. that is a casting machine.
Kschaefer3April 21st, 2016, 11:11 am
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
Kyle: I'm not much of a rod brand connoisseur, but here's what little I do know neatly packaged in a suggestion to take a look at a single discontinued series from a single manufacturer...:

The rods that Orvis built and marketed as their Premium series during the 80's and early 90's were softer action, slower rods that were (IMO anyway...) very pleasant to fish with. I can't remember all the names of all the various rods that were in this series. Two that stick in my memory (because I bought them..) were the Far & Fine (7' 9" 5 wgt) and the 7/11 (7' 11' 4 wgt.) I'm sure they made longer rods from the same graphite that had essentially the same actions.

You might want to find somebody that owns one of the older Premium series Orvis sticks and see if that is the sort of feel you are looking for in a rod. If it is, there is probably a pretty good market for these rods with decent availability and you'd be able to find one pretty easily. They were very popular in their day before fast graphite became all the rage, etc.

A friend I fish with actually just offered to sell me his Silver Label Brook Trout (a 7'6" 4wt). From what I understand, the older Orvis rods were all built on the same blanks, just different hardware. So, while the Silver Label may not be their highest end, I think it should suit my needs.
RleePApril 21st, 2016, 1:22 pm
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 397
>>From what I understand, the older Orvis rods were all built on the same blanks, just different hardware.>>

Yes, I'm pretty sure that is right. When I was working in an Orvis shop in the early 90's, it was pretty obvious about the blanks. The Premium/Superfine and Silver Label and Rocky Mountain series rods were all built on the same blanks and the only differences were the finish or sanding of the blank and how upscale the hardware was. Which, as no-nonsense fishing tools made the lower price Orvis series of the period pretty good deals.


If you like the rod, I'd grab it if I were you..


I know I did 60% or so of my 15 years of WI and Iowa Driftless fishing with my pair of older Far & Fines. It was a great rod for these creeks. I did the other 40% with a slow action 9' 5 wgt. Diamondback Americana and occasionally with my FF605, the old brown Fenwick glass.

I never really had that many rods. At high tide, I may have had 12 or so. I always saw them more as pragmatic tools for a given purpose than high born pedigree pretty things to simply have...
Kschaefer3April 21st, 2016, 2:32 pm
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
I never really had that many rods. At high tide, I may have had 12 or so. I always saw them more as pragmatic tools for a given purpose than high born pedigree pretty things to simply have...


I have thus far been pragmatic in my rod buying from the sense of each being a tool. Maybe less so in the amount of money I pay for marginal (if any) performance increases. For whatever reason, that seems to be changing. Part of me wants to have the choice when I fish. I still consider all the rods I've bought, and am considering buying, to be tools. They are just much more specific tools, I suppose. Don't get me wrong, for a long time I did all my trout fishing with a 9' 5 wt St. Croix Rio Santo. That rod worked, and I caught plenty of fish with it. My casting continued to improve over the last 5ish years though, so I feel I actually gain some benefit from the nicer rods. Plus, I'm single and gainfully employed, so I have the cash for them with no authorization necessary. I'm still in the single digits in terms of number of rods, but I doubt that will be the case at year end.

I think part of my recent rod buying binge is finding that perfect rod. Although, as I type "perfect rod", I realize that is so situational, and a moving target to a degree, that I may never find it. I'm enjoying the journey so far though!
RleePApril 21st, 2016, 4:36 pm
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 397
That's certainly cool... After all, I neglected to mention that I buy guitars mostly based on my desire to have something of high born pedigree that is also pretty. Which is pretty hilarious actually, because even after 15 years of playing, the primary effect of my guitar playing/singing is to cause all the stray cats in the neighborhood to assemble in hopes that *they* will be the one lucky enough to catch the rabbit that obviously has a foot caught in the fence wire....:)

Enjoy the journey....
OldredbarnApril 25th, 2016, 1:07 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
I think part of my recent rod buying binge is finding that perfect rod. Although, as I type "perfect rod", I realize that is so situational, and a moving target to a degree, that I may never find it. I'm enjoying the journey so far though!


Kyle...Wow! There is a philosophical puzzle...The "perfect" rod. A man can become a very unhappy man obsessed with supposed perfection. Quests were started on less...I remember a lovely blond in my last year of high school...It was 1972. I was in that 18 year old group that was allowed to vote in their first election...

The blond had arrived in our school from the junior high and for some reason would smile at me every time we passed in the hall. I finally got up the nerve to speak and stopped over at her house after school. She had the obligatory girlfriend there riding shotgun for her.

The conversation was meaningless stuff until she got around to telling me that if she were old enough to vote she would vote for Richard Nixon...Sigh...This lefty had to walk away having learned a big lesson that day...Sometimes its enough to admire from a distance. ;)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Kschaefer3April 25th, 2016, 1:28 pm
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
Spence - Luckily I'm pretty easy to please, though I will certainly tread with caution. The last thing I want to do is have the one thing I enjoy doing start to make me unhappy. A friend is going to sell me his 7'6" 4 wt Orvis Silver Label. I gave it a test run yesterday on some fishing looking up for caddis. I haven't tried enough rods to know if it's "perfect", but it made me happy fishing it! ;)
Jmd123April 25th, 2016, 2:55 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
"The Perfect Rod"...

For WHAT?

That is the question! Unless you consistently fish the same type of waters, there will never be one "perfect rod" for everything. I fish a wide variety of waters and one size does definitely not fit all. However, if you are looking for the "perfect trout stream rod" and your streams are fairly consistent in size, then yes, I think our man Kyle is on to something. I'm not one to really add much substance to this thread, as I am of limited budget and don't have a wide variety of fly rods (though I've fished many different rods over the years), but what the heck, it's a cold, windy, and soon to be rainy Monday afternoon and I'm feeling philosophical...

"...I have the cash for them with no authorization necessary." LUCKY MAN!!!

Kyle, good luck in your quest!

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
MiltRPowellApril 25th, 2016, 10:27 pm
Posts: 106The Perfect Rod, huh? Easy the one you have in your hand. At the right time, right place, she's a honey for the money every time.
Don't you's remember, love the one your with.
Zebco 202, & being 8 years old , you were un-stopped by no one. Muddy sneakers, pants wet, beating some creek up. Perfect rod, perfect day, innocent time.
Milt.
flyfishingthecreekM.R.P.
TimCatApril 25th, 2016, 11:48 pm
Alanson, MI

Posts: 121
I never thought I could equate Sun Ra to fly fishing... haha, but "Everything which is perfect is finished. The perfect man is no exception to the rule". The perfect [rod] is no exception to the rule... you don't want a broken/deteriorated rod that has run the course of it's life do you? Just kidding!

I understand the quest for "situational perfection" though... Just ask my record collection
"If I'm not going to catch anything, then I 'd rather not catch anything on flies" - Bob Lawless
OldredbarnApril 26th, 2016, 12:06 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
TimCat...Sun Ra?! Gonna start calling you HepCat! :)

...and you live in "fashionable Ferndale"...Whoa...I was over there a couple years back for one of those beer tent fun runs...Hung out in the beer tent to see the Ragbirds!

You still have a record collection?! Me too. Have almost unloaded them a few times since they take up so much room in the already bulging fly tying closet...I could use the space. I have so much tying crap I'll need two-three more lives just to put a dent in it.

You know Sun Ra made a living just playing Ann Arbor. He was out there so much they could of made him a mascot. Loved "Space is the Place"!

What kind of stuff you have in that collection? Did you grow up in the Detroit area? Remember WABX? WCHB? WDET, back in the day, as they say? We were very lucky here. Eclectic was more in fashion back then and we were exposed to everything musically here in the Motor City.

Speaking of eclectic...August 1973 at the Ann Arbor Blues and Jazz Festival I saw Jimmy Reed, Charlie Mingus, and the Ray Charles Big Band all on the same night! Saw Pink Floyd in June of 1975 at the old Olympia of all places! Side Note: That's where the "OLDREDBARN" name came from...It's what we called the place when the Wings played there. I also saw Tommy Hearns' first two pro fights there at the Olympia in the late 70's.

When I was 16 in 1970 I went to Goose Lake...How I talked my mom into letting me go I'll never know. The year after Woodstock and it all was way over my head at 17 except the music...Grew up with music my whole life. My first ever concert that I have a memory of was Johnny Cash in 62 or 63 in Norfolk VA where my father was stationed at the time.

Anyway...Forgot for a second there we are on a fishing site...:)You just rattled a few old brain cells back to life with the mention of Sun Ra...How about Rahsaan Roland Kirk, or Archie Shepp, or Eric Dolphy? :)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Jmd123April 26th, 2016, 5:38 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
"You still have a record collection?! Me too." Guys, last time I walked into Barnes & Noble, they were selling vinyl - LOTS of vinyl!

Myself, I got tired of having to clean the dust off every time I played them, not to mention "snap crackle pop!" as they aged. I find CDs infinitely more convenient to play...but some folks say that vinyl sounds better than digital, as the vinyl holds "continuous information" whereas digital media break everything up into digital bits, so it is not "continuous" but rather "discreet" information. Which leads many people to think that vinyl sounds "warmer" than digital.

OK, a bit off topic but hey, I can't hold a candle to Spence in that regard...

;oD

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
TimCatApril 27th, 2016, 6:52 pm
Alanson, MI

Posts: 121
Spence,
You have seen some excellent shows in your day! I wish I was around back then to experience some of my favorite artists.

I started buying records around 5 or 6 years ago because they were so cheap (usually) compared to CDs and enjoyed the search. I definitely like Rahsaan Roland Kirk. Most of my collection is jazz and funk stuff from the 60s and 70s like Bobbi Humphrey, Mccoy Tyner, George Duke, Yusef Lateef, Parliament, etc. If you are looking to get rid of your records, you should check out a site called Discogs. A lot of people use that to sell and buy secondhand vinyl. It's also a good way to find out market value of what you're selling. You could be sitting on some gems that go for a lot of money these days!

Jonathon,

The analog vs digital debate will never come to a resolution in my opinion. It's all subjective. Sometimes, I enjoy the sound of a dusty record more, depending on the genre. The snaps and pops can ruin the listening experience though. I guess you could equate the analog vs digital debate to a current one in the fly-fishing community though... Synthetics vs natural, but that would be another tangent for this thread. haha. Sorry Kschaefer3
"If I'm not going to catch anything, then I 'd rather not catch anything on flies" - Bob Lawless
CrepuscularApril 28th, 2016, 12:08 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
You just rattled a few old brain cells back to life


Maybe TimCat should change his name to Dr. Frankenstein.

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