Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > Heptageniidae

CrepuscularMarch 10th, 2014, 9:56 am
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
Ok since we haven't seen a bug for a while. Any thoughts on this one? Collected 5/19/2013. South Central PA.
TaxonMarch 10th, 2014, 1:44 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1297
Hi Eric-

I believe this female imago to be of genus Stenacron.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
BrookymanMarch 11th, 2014, 9:14 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Stenacron interpunctatum interpunctatum do have more pics of her ????

Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
CrepuscularMarch 12th, 2014, 7:12 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
Stenacron interpunctatum interpunctatum do have more pics of her ????

Mack.


Why?
WiflyfisherMarch 12th, 2014, 8:12 pm
Wisconsin

Posts: 604
Your mayfly looks a similar to the the Stenacron mayfly I photographed 2-3 years ago.



John S.
https://WiFlyFisher.com
BrookymanMarch 13th, 2014, 12:23 am
Banned
Posts: 797
why


I am collecting any photos of Stenacron samples for working with. For the illustrations series I am making on the Stenacron genus.

Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
BrookymanMarch 13th, 2014, 12:31 am
Banned
Posts: 797
They are different forms of the same specie complex which is the Stenacron interpunctatum complex, so yes they are the same scientifically, and for all intensive purposes, but they are uniquely themselves.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
Jmd123March 13th, 2014, 12:31 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2384
WOW, beautiful photos, both of you guys!

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
WiflyfisherMarch 13th, 2014, 8:31 am
Wisconsin

Posts: 604
One of the things I always thought of when seeing Stenacron was the length of their wing seems to me to be much longer compared to their body length than many other mayflies.

The mayfly in this pic is out of focus but you can see from this side view the long wing...



Then look at this iso which seems to have a wider wing but more in proportion with their body...



versus fat chubby wings...


John S.
https://WiFlyFisher.com
BrookymanMarch 13th, 2014, 12:38 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Nice I love it when people load up the pictures. If it weren't for Eric loading pictures I generally feel alone when it comes to posting samples. I looked at all the data I have on the Stenacron adults. They seem to as a save guess at a average of wing size to body seems to be about (1.5-2 mm) difference. But as in many genus and specie the smaller the insects body the closer in size the wing to the body is. The large the specie the larger the wing. But there seems to be a common size about 2 mm even in the large mayflies like Ephemera guttlata. However I can't say that I have found much of documentation on wing study other than a paper by Dr Traver on flight mechanics. You got me wondering now because I was thinking that the wing size would have to be some form of natural basic ratio of body mass to wing size to make flight possible. So I would think that logically speaking the females being large and having to carry most of the weight of the male in flight the females wings might be large on average than the males. WOW one more thing to add to my observation study this year. I will be rearing tanks full of Stenacron this spring so I maybe be able to put a view point on that one. If only this dare SNOW would go away.

I hope someone can top-up my thought



Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
WiflyfisherMarch 13th, 2014, 8:06 pm
Wisconsin

Posts: 604
Wing to body mass... I try not to think that deep.

Mack, here is Stenacron on the on the rocks...


John S.
https://WiFlyFisher.com
BrookymanMarch 27th, 2014, 3:48 am
Banned
Posts: 797
Gulp !!!! Tasty
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
OldredbarnMarch 27th, 2014, 11:41 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
For us colorblind folk, how would you describe that body color there? You can really see what Marinaro/Fox were talking about when they spoke of translucence and the difficulty a tiers has in trying to copy up to natures standards. Wow! Beautiful bug.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
JOHNWMarch 27th, 2014, 4:30 pm
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
In order from top to bottom
#1-3, 6 Orange Cahill
#4 Slate Drake (although I am missing the white gloves)
#5Lemon Cahill
But that is just my local vernacular showing and by no means should be taken as Binomial Gospel
;)
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
OldredbarnMarch 28th, 2014, 8:54 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
It's easy to see why us fly fisherfolk have always been so enamoreed with mayflies...We are probably the only people on the planet that think a "bug" is beautiful.

:)

Spence

No one's answered my dubbing/color question...How do I get there with those colors...I like to mix my own beaver dub...so 1/3 whatever, 1/3 whatever...etc...How do you attempt to reproduce such incredible colors???
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanMarch 29th, 2014, 12:56 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
I agree Spence, the sulfur colors are very tough to describe, let alone match. Schwiebert and other authors have often used the word "illusive" when discussing them - and with good reason. To make matters worse, they often differ dramatically between hatches and even individuals. Then we have to consider the good/bad news of the final arbiters of our efforts (the trout). They are often fickle about it as well. Usually, the closest match is the way to go, but not always. Sometimes a simple tan or gray version of the same pattern will outperform "the perfect match." Wished I knew why... :)

The "spectrumized" method of dubbing was popular for awhile but never achieved universal acceptance. I think the reason is because while the mixing of primary colors may appear to blend and look good in the hand, in macro (the way trout see it) the red, yellow & blue are clearly isolated and unnatural looking.

The best way I've found to match these illusive colors is to start out with a base that approximates the most dominant shade. It's usually a compromise between the lighter belly and darker back. A common misconception is that trout only see the belly. Not true. The back colors definitely have influence. Sometimes if the difference is dramatic it's even good to two-tone your flies with shellbacks or marking pens.

For this fly I'd start with amber, add a little orange and even less pink or perhaps a little cream or pale yellow if I need to lighten it a little. Spin some in your fingers to dense it up and approximate a fly body. Adjust as needed. I use this technique for all my hatch matching and will apply it to my same favorite patterns as the standard grays and tans that are always carried. Natural beaver belly is awesome stuff. Trout often key into a single color for some reason (perhaps the reason for spectrumized dubbing's occasional superiority) and I've often added say a little bright orange or yellow to the nat. beaver with great success.

Some guys worry about how dubbing looks wet or dry, but this is an unnecessary canard, IMO. While colors appear darker when wet, this is because they are being observed out of the water. When on or in the water they will look pretty much the same as when dry. A good example to demonstrate this is with a red floss body. Wet and out of the water it looks very dark - put it back in the water and it's bright red again.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnMarch 29th, 2014, 4:43 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Sometimes if the difference is dramatic it's even good to two-tone your flies with shellbacks or marking pens.


Our Brown Drakes have that sharp line, if you will, between the lower bottom half of the fly and the top. Some tiers will wrap the body with a yellowish/cream yarn and then lay darker deer across the back of the abdomen, criss-crossing it with yellow or brown thread.

When I tie the little sulpher, the dorothea I have two different bits of mixed beaver. Near the tail and around the thorax the mixture has some orange in it and the other is a creamy yellow.

Looks good to me. :)

Spence

You know I went through a spell years back where I carried Gary Borgers little color booklet and kept notes as I went...Ok. There! I said it...Nerd!:)
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
SmeadorMarch 29th, 2014, 6:46 pm
Prospect, VA

Posts: 6
Oldredbarn - there have been days when collecting a nymph I haven't found in the stream I'm fishing is WAY cooler than any of the fish I caught that day. LOL! Glad to hear there are others like me...
JOHNWMarch 29th, 2014, 8:11 pm
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
Spence,
My approach for say pink alberts (epeorus sp I think) is to use a very light dubbing over a thread that is in the realm of the overall color. In that case a hot pink under very sparse cream. It kind of answers the translucence issue .
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
EntomanMarch 29th, 2014, 8:31 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Spence -

You know I went through a spell years back where I carried Gary Borgers little color booklet and kept notes as I went...Ok. There! I said it...Nerd!:)

Actually, I confess the same. :)

Lost mine several years ago and they are now out of print. Small digital cameras & smart phones have rendered it obsolete, though. What a boon these cameras are. The macro views show the heather subtleties that look solid in the hand. Really helps with dubbing selection.

Btw - I almost always rib the abdomens of my dubbed dry flies. Makes them more durable and captures the segmention very well.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: cahills
In the Mayfly Genus Stenacron by LittleJ
8Dec 1, 2006
by Troutnut
Re: A little somethin somethin
In the Identify This! Board by DayTripper
4Jun 10, 2013
by Oldredbarn
Re: Delaware
In by Jesse
2Jun 30, 2011
by JOHNW
Re: sulphur emerger questions spring & little j
In General Discussion by Lastchance
4May 17, 2010
by Lastchance
Re: Ephemerellidae with a mate :-)
(4 more)

In the Identify This! Board by Brookyman
4May 14, 2014
by Brookyman
Not Stenacron, probably Leucrocuta
In Male Leucrocuta hebe Mayfly Spinner by GONZO
0
The Baby Bow Streamer
In Fly Tying by Mcflyangler
0
Re: This one will be interesting
(2 more)

In the Identify This! Board by Brookyman
1Feb 6, 2013
by Brookyman
Re: Wood Duck Color Rabbit
In Fly Tying by Flytyerinpa
5Feb 25, 2019
by Upstate
Re: Baetis softhackle
In the Photography Board by Shawnny3
12Jul 9, 2012
by Crepuscular
Most Recent Posts
Re: Best guess at this bug. Smut (Simuliidae)
In General Discussion by Pdcox (Martinlf replied)
Re: Rio Puerco, Northern New Mexico
In Fishing Reports by Red_green_h (Troutnut replied)
Re: Tiny Black Caddis hatch, late fall - Nov 26 to be exact_ Spring Creek Southern MO
In the Caddisfly Family Hydroptilidae by Dai_sca (Pdcox replied)
Must Read This on my New Reel Purchase
In Gear Talk by 6106b
Re: Stonefly?
In the Identify This! Board by Pdcox (Taxon replied)
Re: Streamer rig set up questions
In Gear Talk by Fliesties22 (Martinlf replied)
Iowa Driftless
In General Discussion by KevinB
Re: fall bluewinged olive coloration.
In Fly Tying by Partsman
Re: Thankful
In General Discussion by Martinlf (Strmanglr replied)
Re: My (new) place and its environs
In the Photography Board by Jmd123 (Martinlf replied)