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BrookymanJanuary 4th, 2014, 11:43 pm
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Posts: 797
Over the past two years I have collected a half dozen or so, of some really odd Stenacron here near the Toronto area that do not fit into any descriptions other that possibly S gildersleevei and maybe
S minnetonka. So I was wondering does anybody know if ether of these two have ever been reported in my area. They are likely just hybrids but I would like know. The two oddest ones are both females so that make it even more difficult. However I just dissected a male Stenacron larva that lines up really good for S gildersleevei so I am just wondering.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
TaxonJanuary 5th, 2014, 2:16 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1301
Yes Mack, there are records of Stenacron gildersleevei in Ontario. Please see Stenacron gildersleevei.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
BrookymanJanuary 5th, 2014, 2:43 am
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Posts: 797
Thank you Roger

Excellent I was wondering about that. Does S minnetonka also reside in Ontario ???



Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanJanuary 5th, 2014, 3:43 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Does S minnetonka also reside in Ontario ???

As far as I know they have yet to be reported for Canada. Mayfly Central has them listed for the US only. However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
TaxonJanuary 5th, 2014, 4:07 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1301
Mack,

What Kurt said. :-)
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
BrookymanJanuary 5th, 2014, 9:54 pm
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Posts: 797
Thanks guys

For now I think we shall stand as not likely but you never know till they are found here. The odd females are likely just hybrid forms till further notice :-)

Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
BrookymanJanuary 8th, 2014, 2:46 am
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Posts: 797
Hey Kurt & Roger

Mayfly central has S gildersleevei listed for north east Canada.

Stenacron gildersleevei (Traver, 1935) [CAN:NE;USA:NE,SE]
Heptagenia gildersleevei (Traver, 1935) (comb.)
Stenonema gildersleevei Traver, 1935 (orig.)


And that being the case it makes me wonder if the Stenacron female I just posted isn't possibly S gildersleevei it lines up with that specie quite good. If so it would be nice to know only because there are no known photos on the WWW showing any adult stages of that specie. The only photo I know of is (Lewis 1974) # 16 for a larva and it shows the black triangles behind the pronotum. Take a peek at her and see what you think.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanJanuary 8th, 2014, 10:06 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Yes, that was already confirmed for you by Roger. Wasn't the remaining question about minnetonka? Or am I confused...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanJanuary 8th, 2014, 10:24 pm
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Posts: 797
Hey Kurt

As far as I know they have yet to be reported for Canada. Mayfly Central has them listed for the US only. However, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.


I could be reading it wrong, but I am seeing (NE CAN) on mayfly central for S gildersleevei, but not for S minnetonka.

Stenacron gildersleevei (Traver, 1935) [CAN:NE;USA:NE,SE]
Heptagenia gildersleevei (Traver, 1935) (comb.)
Stenonema gildersleevei Traver, 1935 (orig.)


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanJanuary 8th, 2014, 10:48 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Now you do have me mumbling to myself...
Who's on first?:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanJanuary 8th, 2014, 11:03 pm
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Posts: 797
I feel a grand slam coming LOL :-)

you originally posted what I quoted you on about gildersleevei as not being in Canada. But I am seeing (CAN NE) meaning (north east Canada) on mayfly central for the range or am I reading that wrong ???

And if it is in my area maybe that female I posted for conversation just might
be S gildersleevei ??? by chance.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanJanuary 8th, 2014, 11:32 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Geez, Mack!:). No, you are reading Mayfly Central correctly. It's your own thread that seems to be giving you trouble... LOL

As for your last question - it's certainly possible, I suppose. We have to keep in mind that female descriptions are pretty sparse and even of those, many aren't necessarily reliable. Then we wrestle with proper interpretation... Keyed characters are virtually nonexistent. Lastly, variability between and even within strains is very common further compounding the problem. Bottom line is I'd be cautious about looking for unreported maculation differences and then trying to use them as a way to determine species, let alone strains within them.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanJanuary 9th, 2014, 12:22 am
Banned
Posts: 797
Although she could be S gildersleevei I do not think she is because she has a pleura streak of sorts. But knowing that they could be here and I "may" have one will put me in motion to search that spot with greater scrutiny because it may not be impossible to find that specie in my neighborhood. I live in Stenacron alley so I have lots of samples to look at. There is no known description that I can find for a female of that specie all I have to hypothesize with is matching her up to the male description and my illustration just to see how or if see fits in somewhat. To tell the truth I am more interested in studying the forms rather than specie, making an ID to form is not as tough as specie. But once you can ID the form it is very easy to place into its current current valid specie.

This spring all I am rearing in my tank is Stenacron's by the bucket load :-)


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts

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