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PaulRobertsNovember 4th, 2013, 3:36 am
Colorado

Posts: 1776


TaxonNovember 4th, 2013, 4:12 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
Peltoperlids?
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
EntomanNovember 6th, 2013, 4:47 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Sampling Australasian fauna, Paul? :)

The top one is in the Ephemerelliodea? Can't see enough to tell between ephemerellid or leptohyphid. Those developing eyes are really starting to show through the head capsule. Looks like a male close to eclosion.

The notched and divergent wing pads and what looks like feathery thoracic gills on the bottom one leads me think it is some kind of perlid.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
LastchanceNovember 6th, 2013, 5:14 pm
Portage, PA

Posts: 437
They're stoneflies.
PaulRobertsNovember 6th, 2013, 7:32 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776
Sampling Australasian fauna, Paul? :)

Awwwww, you're onto me. Jees, I came here just to stump you and Roger! :)

The first is a mayfly. Apologies for the poor photo. As Kurt noticed it's probably a male (large eyes) about ready to emerge (dark wing pads). It was very small -trico, or better, Caenis, sized.

The stonefly does look something like a Peltoperlid, in terms of color, compact body and feeble legs. Kurt's probably right though that it's a Perlid due to those feathery gills between the legs. And it has a Perlid look to it though in markings, actually reminding me of Hesperoperla I find in smaller Colorado mountain streams. I assume the body style speaks to its lifestyle. Peltoperla is a shredder whereas Hesperoperla is a predator. I'm assuming this one is a predator. Can't be too sure about this streams trophic status as I don't know tropical streams well. Fertile soil layers tend to be thin as litter material composts very quickly due to moisture and temperatures (no winters), yet the substrate is a mix of volcanic and limestone (ancient uplifted coral reef). I didn't see any leaf litter wads you'd expect to find Peltoperla in.

Here's the stream. Could be from anywhere, huh!:


What is so cool is that the same basic critters can be found the world over. Speaks to the antiquity of their origins -going back to when the groups were contiguous on an enormous supercontinent. Turn over rocks in a forest stream on an island in the Pacific and you find mayflies and stoneflies! No trout though. There were some little fishes but I didn't get the chance to capture any. Will need to add a dip net to my critter capture kit. The place is pretty well used by the local Mangyan people who live a subsistence existence.
Jmd123November 6th, 2013, 8:06 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2369
Hey Paul, where are you at and why are you there? Vacation? Work? Special project? Personal research? Just curious...and envious, the weather here is foul and dark, looks a lot nicer where you're at.

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
EntomanNovember 6th, 2013, 10:57 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Ha, thought so! Very cool... Wished I knew more but there's precious little I can find regarding aqua inverts in the Phillipines.

That stone has the light eye rings and coloration of a roach stone but the big predator head and body shape of a perlid.

As for the mayfly, the body shape and what looks like a pair of operculate gills on the 2nd seg suggests Trico but the eyes are too close together and more closely match a Henny. Am I right about the gills? Without a closer look or your confirmation, I'm stuck between the two families.:(
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanNovember 6th, 2013, 11:39 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Bruce -

Oops, broke my promise again. Sorry. Leptohyphidae is the family that tricos are in. Ephemerelliodea is the name of the super family that both tricos and hennies are in.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnNovember 7th, 2013, 12:12 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Paul. You are still a small boy at heart. Get him near a stream and he's bound to turn a stone or two over. When I roamed the woods and fields around my grandmothers 40 as a child, I'd turn over anything that may be hiding a garter snake or a salamander! What is this thing we call curiosity?!

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanNovember 7th, 2013, 1:51 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
I don't know, Spence. I'm glad we have it though!;)

Neat stream, Paul. The pictures didn't load on my ipad the last visit. Now I'm leaning more towards ephemerellid. Doesn't look like habitat for silt lovers.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
PaulRobertsNovember 7th, 2013, 1:54 am
Colorado

Posts: 1776
Hi Jonathan, don't feel too envious. It's a real mixed bag here. Came here to broaden my sons educational horizons. We're not disappointed there. But daily living for this old troutnut is a challenge.

Spence, I don't turn over rocks everywhere. Walked a river today that reeked so strongly of feces and urine I didn't turn anything over.
EntomanNovember 7th, 2013, 5:52 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
RU OK, Paul? Looks like there's a real monster bearing down on you...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
LastchanceNovember 7th, 2013, 6:51 pm
Portage, PA

Posts: 437
Sorry I didn't take a good look at the top photo. I'm certainly not doubting you, but how can you tell what the top photos is? I cannot see any prominent features.
PaulRobertsNovember 7th, 2013, 6:55 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776
We're fine. Thanks, Kurt. The "Super" typhoon is expected to pass south of us. Last regular typhoon passed north of us about the same distance and we felt nothing. But ... dunno what "super typhoon" means exactly.

Seems wild weather is following me around. First a fire that took out half our neighborhood, then our place was in the epicenter of the CO flooding and we lost almost all the roads (and some neighbors) to our house. I've been in the Philippines for 3 months and we've had 3 typhoons and an earthquake. I've yet to experience a volcanic eruption but I suppose this would be the place to add to my natural disasters life list. Will keep you posted.
EntomanNovember 7th, 2013, 8:40 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Glad to hear, Paul. Keep safe!

Bruce,
Can you see the lack of a second wing case? That's the first and most important clue. Notice the two close set bumps on the head? Those are the adult's eyes forming under the head capsule (they are not functional yet). On a stonefly those would be lateral. After that, body shape and several other features rule out swimmers, burrowers, clingers, armored mays and prong-gills. All that's left are the crawlers of the Pannota infraorder. These include the tricos, curses, and the various ephemerellid genera. I felt it looked a little too stocky to be a caenid (Angler's Curse) so I narrowed it down a little further to the superfamily level which excludes them. I could be all wet about the latter due to applying Nearctic caenid character assumptions, but I feel pretty good about the infraorder at least.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Feathers5November 8th, 2013, 10:22 am
Posts: 287Thanks, I see now on what you're making that determination.
PaulRobertsNovember 9th, 2013, 6:21 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776
We're OK. Missed us. But oh my god ... have you seen the news?
EntomanNovember 9th, 2013, 6:30 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Yes, it's horrible. That's why we were worried. Glad to hear you and yours are okay.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnNovember 10th, 2013, 11:25 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Seems wild weather is following me around. First a fire that took out half our neighborhood, then our place was in the epicenter of the CO flooding and we lost almost all the roads (and some neighbors) to our house. I've been in the Philippines for 3 months and we've had 3 typhoons and an earthquake. I've yet to experience a volcanic eruption but I suppose this would be the place to add to my natural disasters life list. Will keep you posted.


Paul,

I was really looking forward, once your gypsy days were behind you, to you and I fishing somewhere together. I'm no longer sure, see above, that this is a good idea. :) Following you around is down right dangerous.

There was a decade when it seemed that as soon as I crossed over the Crawford County line where Grayling is located a very large low pressure center would camp out over head and my fishing week's weather would get down right snarly. Gray clouds, wind, rain, and ocassionaly very cold and it would snow.

One time, Paul, I sat on the bank of the river on a very cold bluebird sky day with a single cloud hovering over my head. This cloud was pouring snow down on me...I thought I should move to get out from under it, but then resigned myself to the idea that a greater power was probably sending me a message, and that moving would be futile.

That same week my guide friend and I were launching the boat for our annual day together. As we were about to shove off he turned to me and asked if I was sure about this. "Once we go, Spence, there is no turning back." We were on the river and by the end of the first hour we found ourselves taking shelter underneath some cedars as it hailed for 20 minutes.

The only fly on the water that day was a size 26 Baetis that was so small the creek chubs weren't even interested. This was during my bad back period and when we made it to the end of our all day float I was so hunched over I looked like Quasimodo. My friend was so concerned he started the truck and made me sit inside, trying to thaw out, while he stowed our gear and put the boat on the trailer...The bag of ice I had purchased for our beers was still intact. Not a single drop thawed.

Folks began to ask Rusty when I was coming up and booking either the week ahead of me or the week after.

I have been watching the reports on the news of the storm and they are unbelievable! Up until the fourth grade I lived in Norfolk Virginia as a Navy Brat. We used to get some serious hurricaines over that way from time-to-time. All the sailors would head to the ships and sail away from these storms leaving Ma and her kids home alone to tough it out.

The Navy wifes would put on a brave face and gather together. They would hang Army blankets over the windows and fill the bath tube with water and play cards most of the night. There would be a never ending wail out side and somewhere during the night I'd fall asleep and awake to a bright sunny day. Then my buddy's dad would drive us down to the North Carolina beaches to gather conks that had washed ashore.

I'm glad that you and your little tribe are safe...Truth be known, I'm still thinking forward to some day in the future when we get to share a beat.

Spence

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
PaulRobertsNovember 10th, 2013, 11:57 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776

Paul,
I was really looking forward, once your gypsy days were behind you, to you and I fishing somewhere together. I'm no longer sure, see above, that this is a good idea. :) Following you around is down right dangerous.

My brother used to say, "Never follow Paul around in the woods. You'll end up all scratched up and have no idea why." I think it's gotten much worse.


Folks began to ask Rusty when I was coming up and booking either the week ahead of me or the week after.

LOL At least you get the river to yourself. Yes?


I'm still thinking forward to some day in the future when we get to share a beat.

That will be fun, Spence. I picture it being something like Captain Dan coming to terms with his God in "Forest Gump".
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