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> > HELP !!! I need a key,and not just any key..LOL

BrookymanMarch 22nd, 2013, 4:15 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Are you my locksmith !!! regarding larva.

I have dissected 1 out of 6 samples that I believe are
Epeorus albertae. They match very good in maculation
and in physical characteristics to museum samples.

The only really key I can find is the forefemora notch listed
by ( Edmunds & Allen 1964 ). I would love 1 or 2 more for close
comparisons.

So if you have another key can you mail it too me.
I will get a copy made then send it back I promise.



THX
Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
SayfuMarch 22nd, 2013, 4:44 pm
Posts: 560Never knew Albertae was that far east. Thought they were a Western species of Epeorus....if you found them in Ontario.
EntomanMarch 22nd, 2013, 5:26 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Mack -

The best (and easiest) way to tell species in the albertae group from other taxa in the genus is by their less enlarged 1st gills that don't extend ventrally. The femora character was used as a diagnostic one for differentiating species of this group on the West Coast. It is of questionable value as it is my understanding that the 5 coastal species can't be accurately differentiated with much confidence. From the Rockies east though, this isn't a problem (with only the single species) and it's pretty straight forward. You can be reasonably confident in your diagnosis if your specimens fit the gill character.

As for keys - there aren't any to my knowledge that really update E & A '64 much regarding this species group.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanMarch 22nd, 2013, 6:47 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
Now this gets weird

Hi Kurt I read that in that paper regarding the gills. These do appear
to extend under the abdomen. Mine also has the darkening of the dorsal
abdominal median line from the 1-8. Under magnification it is brown setae.

The femora notch matches E albertae. And I read on Rogers site
that they are listed as being in Ontario, but I suspect that they are
in the extreme North West. Although the maculation is faded from
being in solution for the better part of a year but it can still be made
out. I will try to get microscope and camera pictures to load.


Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanMarch 22nd, 2013, 7:04 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Jere -

Never knew Albertae was that far east.

You were right in a sense as they aren't except in Canada. Distribution east of the Rockies seems to be north of the U.S. Specimens have been recorded for ON at least as far back as the 50's.

Mack -

These do appear to extend under the abdomen.

Well, it sounds like you aren't looking at albertae then. Probably in the vitreus group?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanMarch 22nd, 2013, 7:28 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Webb & McCafferty '06 has a mini-key covering the vitreus group you may find helpful.

Edit: BTW - In the introduction it is stated that all eastern North American species of Epeorus can be divided into two groups. This is a little confusing as albertae is not in either of the groups mentioned. Perhaps the authors didn't consider ON as part of Eastern NA for their purposes (even though it was mentioned)...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanMarch 22nd, 2013, 9:03 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
I took a better look on the whole sample under the scope and
the gills do not go under like some do, there is a "gap" between
them . look for new post with photos.

Mack.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanMarch 23rd, 2013, 12:32 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Just to tie the threads of the Epeorus genus together from an angler's perspective, there are basically 2 types (not to be confused with entomological species groups) represented by different species East and West:

1. Large cashew nut shaped 1st gills that reach well underneath the body (tend to be larger and hatch earlier) =
East - pleuralis group (Gordon Quills) common
West - longimanus (Yellow Quill) common; deceptivus (no common name) less common

2. Heart shaped 1st gills that reach underneath only slightly or not at all (tend to be smaller and hatch later) =
East - vitreus group (Sulfur, Pink lady) common; albertae (Canada only, no common name) rare
West - albertae group (Pink Albert, Western Pink Lady) common


Hope this clears up any confusion...

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
BrookymanMarch 23rd, 2013, 4:48 pm
Banned
Posts: 797
That's great information Kurt Thank you.
Banned for threatening another user and then trying to circumvent a kinder "soft" ban with fake accounts
EntomanMarch 23rd, 2013, 6:29 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Thanks back. I'm trying to remember to add a post like this in threads where we engage in what many readers see as the esoteric mumbo jumbo of entomology.:) Tying it back to angling is a good thing, I think.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

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