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> > Half and Half Emergers
| Crepuscular | February 16th, 2013, 6:40 pm | |
 Posts: 923 | Tying some emergers today. Here is a snowshoe Hendrickson emerger.   | |
| Entoman | February 16th, 2013, 6:48 pm | |
 Posts: 2604 | Very nice, Eric! | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Crepuscular | February 16th, 2013, 7:24 pm | |
Posts: 923 | Thanks. When I can get the ass end of that fly to sink but rest of it on top, it's deadly. Tough to see, but deadly. | |
| Entoman | February 16th, 2013, 7:35 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | Man, I hear you on that. Perhaps try a few with a more visible wing? I've noticed that trout often don't care about wing color when taking emergers. Even when matching wing color is important, I've gone almost exclusively to the z-lon like stuff because you can see it so well.When I can get the ass end of that fly to sink... Yes, the up-bent hook and thorax hackle is fighting you on that. When it does sink it's probably going to hang vertically, supported by the wing. Try a straight wire hook with a parachute hackle to suspend the body just under the film horizontally. The scud hooks take them too vertical as well, IMO. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Wbranch | February 16th, 2013, 7:39 pm | |
 Posts: 2733 | Eric, Very nice flies. Is that bronze blue dun hackle? Is it my imagination or are you tying them on hooks with a longer than standard shank length? Did u ever try wrapping the back end of the shank with lead, or copper, wire to facilitate the back end to sink? I tie many of my PMD emergers with just a brown wire abdomen, then a beaver thorax and a CDC tip wing. | |
| Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
| Gutcutter | February 17th, 2013, 10:07 am | |
 Posts: 470 | This is from WiFlyFisher's blog and it made a brief appearance here last spring http://www.troutnut.com/topic/6588/2/Hendrickson-color-variations I have bastardized (made simpler/faster to tie) John's fly with excellent results http://flypatternsfortrout.com/2012/03/10/making-a-more-natural-looking-emerger-dun-mayfly-pattern/ | |
| All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad. -Robert Traver, Trout Madness | ||
| Crepuscular | February 17th, 2013, 11:02 am | |
Posts: 923 | Is that bronze blue dun hackle? Is it my imagination or are you tying them on hooks with a longer than standard shank length? Did u ever try wrapping the back end of the shank with lead, or copper, wire to facilitate the back end to sink? | |
| Wbranch | February 17th, 2013, 11:50 am | |
Posts: 2733 | Hey, you should condsider getting a manicure. | |
| Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
| Oldredbarn | February 17th, 2013, 12:44 pm | |
 Posts: 2608 | Eric, What you using for dubbing for the abdomen? Those "picked-out" fibers probably help to keep that elevated on the water surface...There seems to be a tread of fuzzy picked-out non-discript ties...The abdomen of the natural you are holding there hasn't anything hanging off the sides... Can you hear the distant voice of my old mentor in those remarks of mine? :) I'd stay away from dry fly dubbing, ie beaver, muskrat, whatever, and use some rabbit under fur dubbing, not hares mask and Matt is being generous with his hint about a little weight on the ass end to help it sink... http://www.danica.com/flytier/aconba/dark_greenwell_breakout_emerger.htm She's using sewing thread here. Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Crepuscular | February 17th, 2013, 1:51 pm | |
Posts: 923 | Eric, What you using for dubbing for the abdomen? Those "picked-out" fibers probably help to keep that elevated on the water surface...There seems to be a tread of fuzzy picked-out non-discript ties...The abdomen of the natural you are holding there hasn't anything hanging off the sides... Are you talking about the abdomen of the sub or of the nymphal portion of the fly. I'm assuming the latter. Squirrel. but rabbit works too, as does pheasant tail fibers or ostrich herl which I use sometimes, and no that natural does not have things hanging off the sides but when that dun is attached to the nymphal shuck there are pieces if that hanging off, legs, and split thorax, and tails etc.  For the abdomen portion of the dun there I use dry fly dubbing or biots. I also tie them parachute style like I mentioned before. It's more of a style than a specific recipe, and the specific pattern I will use or put in my clients hand to use, is dictated by the type of water we are fishing etc. While the "Dark Greenwell Breakout Emerger" is a nice looking fly, I'm sure it would catch a fish or two, I don't think it would be as durable as the ones that I tie, not enough wing material. for me. I go through phases when it comes to CDC I like it and still use it but right now i'm on a snowshoe hare kick. Also I would loop the CDC for the wing, better silhouette in my considered opinion. Here is an extended body CDC Emerger:  I also rib the nymphal portion of the fly with latex ribbing or wire sometimes, which add weight, It's a fine line I walk there.  | |
| Entoman | February 17th, 2013, 2:18 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | Those "picked-out" fibers probably help to keep that elevated on the water surface. Yeah, but that's what makes the fly so cool IMO. Great simulation of gills, legs, and other shredded parts of the cuticle. Besides, once it's saturated it won't stick in the film. Only if this weren't true, as I'd like my dry flies to stop sinking.:) but I have seen plenty of emerges with the shuck hanging below the surface, especially if the sub is having difficulty getting out. Me too. I carry several of the vertical types as well and let the fish decide. Some are tied on TMC 2488 hooks so the wing stays righted. I see that Daiichi is making a new klinkhammer hook that might be perfect for this. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Martinlf | February 17th, 2013, 2:21 pm | |
 Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Fun thread. Half and half emergers are deadly. The up bent hook that Eric and John S. uses is for some tiers based on the idea of getting a more natural attitude for the body. For example Paul Weamer's Trueform Flies. Lloyd Gonzales (AKA Gonzo) bends his hooks this way also, and for this reason. I'd think that once Eric's abdomen dubbing gets soaked, it will sink just fine, like many of my dry flies do after a dunking or two. I'm still a fan of klinkhamer style hooks for half and half emergers, and am currently using a Daiichi 1130, Tiemco 212Y or similar sharply bent "scud" hook to get the tail stuck down more vertically, but I don't know if these hooks hold as well as straight hooks. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Any proof? And a question for Tony who said, "I have bastardized (made simpler/faster to tie) John's fly with excellent results." Could you tell us what you did and post the result? | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Wbranch | February 17th, 2013, 2:26 pm | |
Posts: 2733 | ".The abdomen of the natural you are holding there hasn't anything hanging off the sides..." Spence, The effect Eric is trying to achieve, and has done a good job doing, is to make the fly look like it is breaking out of the nymphal shuck as it floats along in the film or on the surface. I've been tying Sulfurs like that for years for the difficult Delaware fish. I use brown fibers from a turkey tail feather for the tail, a twisted PT fiber abdomen ribbed with XF gold wire and a sulfur thorax with a regular wing and hackle. | |
| Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years. | ||
| Entoman | February 17th, 2013, 2:30 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | The effect Eric is trying to achieve, and has done a good job doing, is to make the fly look like it is breaking out of the nymphal shuck as it floats along in the film or on the surface. I agree, Matt. Another style to simulate the hanging emerger is the precurser of the klinkhammer styles - Mike Monroe's Paratilt from the late '70's. I'll get one out of my box to photograph and post.... I have the same concerns about klinhammer hooks, Louis. On the original, the hook modifications to tie them properly were in larger sizes for grayling. They reportedly hook very well. I don't know about the small sizes we use for trout. I think the design would be very problematic. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Entoman | February 17th, 2013, 4:14 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | Here's an example of Monroe's Paratilt. It's basically a nymph with a burst of dun color for the front half of the thorax. The parachute hackle is slanted forward by not damming in front of the post with thread. The wing is clipped short and is only there for visibility (and to hold the hackle in place). This is probably my most productive dry fly for the later hatching excrucians species of Pale Morning Dun that causes the greatest selectivity. That is when they (fish) don't prefer a horizontal emerger or clean dun. BTW - Forgive me the vanity for pointing it out, but those hackles on the far side are bent under a little from the fly being on its side, falsely creating the illusion of them being trapped under thread at the eye. PMD Paratilt #16  | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Martinlf | February 17th, 2013, 4:28 pm | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Yes, I've thought of doing this with a down eye hook, Kurt, and just haven't gotten around to it. Now I will; Thanks. As to your quotation belowI think the design would be very problematic. Interesting. Your reasoning? | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Entoman | February 17th, 2013, 4:47 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | Hook gap and angle. Not much clearance to work with in the tiny sizes. BTW - if you tie some Paratilts, be sure to taper the front half of the thorax as in the photo or you'll stand the wing up and defeat the purpose. Sorry I didn't mention that. Mike tied his with a hackle quill abdomen and no tails. It was AKA the "No-Ass Parachute" and published as such in FF Magazine way back when. I think my version is more effective... For a perfect float, after the fly is tied on grease the hackle/wing with your right thumb and finger. Then grab the body of the fly with wet thumb & finger in your left hand (being careful not to get the hackle/wing wet) and work the moisture in to the point of saturation. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Martinlf | February 17th, 2013, 5:03 pm | |
Moderator Palmyra PAPosts: 3233 | Thanks again, Kurt. I don't typically tie the Klink style in tiny sizes, and have had some very good luck hooking and holding fish the Klinks down to size 18--on most waters. I did have a day on the Delaware where several fish shook off a size 16 Gamakatsu C15-BV hook, and that got me thinking. But that is a very thin wire barbless hook and for big fish there are several reasons the hook may not hold that well. Anyway, I'm giving the Daiichi's a try in 18-12's this year, plus I will be tying some of the paratilt flies. | |
| "He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell | ||
| Entoman | February 17th, 2013, 5:17 pm | |
Posts: 2604 | My pleasure, Louis. BTW - I don't typically tie the Klink style in tiny sizes...very good luck hooking and holding fish the Klinks down to size 18... That is tiny for us westerners! :) Glad to hear you've had good luck holding with them. I've been wanting to experiment with the new Daiichis but have been a little reluctant until now. Thanks back at you. | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Gutcutter | February 17th, 2013, 6:25 pm | |
Posts: 470 | Half and half emergers are deadly Absolutely! I'm still a fan of klinkhamer style hooks for half and half emergers  And a question for Tony who said, "I have bastardized (made simpler/faster to tie) John's fly with excellent results."  | |
| All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad. -Robert Traver, Trout Madness | ||
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