Troutnut Forum > Fly Fishing Discussion > Catch and Release, Page 2
| Martinlf | May 30th, 2007, 8:09 am | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 907 | I've used 70 degrees F as my cut off for trout fishing generally. If it's higher, I fish for bass or stay home. How does this sound to the fisheries biologists? | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
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| Macgruber | May 30th, 2007, 11:04 am | |
| minneapolis Posts: 7 | last year on the bighorn i caught a 23" rainbow in a large side channel along with a bunch of others in april...... came back in july with a buddy and after checking the photos from my april trip and comparing them to a fish he pulled, found that we caught the same fish not 30 yds from the hole i'd caught it in april..... the monster kype and the age of the fish were dead give-aways..... also, to echo virtually everyone else..... go barbless...... esp. fishing with light line..... it's not just the release, but also the hook-sets which end up being a little too vigorous..... line snaps, fish ends up with a fly or two dragging behind it...... you gotta figure it's got a better shot at throwing the hooks if they are barbless...... i forgot to crush 'em on timber coulee and snapped off a large one earlier this year and it's still buggin me..... he's got a caddis and parachute adams wrapped around him.... | |
| West | May 30th, 2007, 11:27 am | |
| Bayfield, Wisconsin Posts: 34 | Regarding David's statistics on mortality and release, I'm actually a little surprised that the difference in fish mortality of barbless and barbed hooks was not greater in the studies indicated. However, I guess if you're talking about total fish being released each year, 1 to 4 percent is really a large chunk. The part about summer steelhead mortality is quite disturbing to me; 90%? Wow. Water temp. is something that i hadn't thought a lot about when releasing fish, but I do know that it really should be taken into account when the temps. rise in the warmer months on some freestone streams. Thanks for bringing that up. It's a good point. | |
| West | ||
| Shawnny3 | May 31st, 2007, 7:24 am | |
| Pleasant Gap, PA Posts: 541 | Nice follow-up, West - 1 to 4% of all fish released could be a huge number, especially on pressured C&R streams where a single fish might be caught and released a dozen or more times in a season - 1 to 4% times 10 or 20 releases for a single fish starts to become a pretty significant mortality percentage. I was also hoping that David could clarify those numbers by telling us more about the comparison. For example, if barbless hooks result in a 10% mortality rate compared with an 11-14% mortality rate for barbed hooks, then the difference isn't that great. But if the barbless hooks result in a 1% mortality rate while the barbed are at 2-5%, then the difference is huge. Last, I'm inferring from David's posts that the time spent playing a fish could be really important in warm-water conditions. Does this mean we should try to use heavier tackle in warmer water and play fish more aggressively to try to minimize stress? Thanks, Shawn | |
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| DMM | May 31st, 2007, 11:31 am | |
| Posts: 141 | Mortality rates for C&R fishing vary greatly depending on conditions, angler, etc. The barbed hooks add an additional 1% to whatever the mortality rate. If mortality rates are 20% at a given time, then barbed hooks would make them go up to 21%, for example. Not a large number, but when you consider all of the fish caught and released every year, the numbers add up. Also, the larger the hook, the greater the mortality rate (hooks up to a certain size don't change the rate much). Additionally (alluding to Louis' statement), bigger hooks have bigger barbs, which are more damaging. The barb on a size 500 hook is practically non-existent. Trout start getting stressed when the temperatures reach about the mid-60's. All handling increases stress. If you must handle the fish, minimize your contact and playing time. The statements I make are generalizations. I'm trying to be informative without writing an encyclopaedia. Don't get too bogged down in the details. The main points are that it is not a bad idea to mash barbs, nor is it a bad idea to limit your trout fishing when the water temperature is high. It is always good to minimize fish handling. | |
| David | ||
| Konchu | May 31st, 2007, 1:02 pm | |
| Indiana Posts: 200 | Thanks for the good "take home" messages. | |
| Martinlf | May 31st, 2007, 1:47 pm | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 907 | David, thanks again for the information. Do you think the 70 degree F is too high a cut off point in general? I do, as Shawn suggests, make sure I can play and release fish quickly if the temperature is in the upper 60's, as I'm often using beetles or sinking inchworms and higher X tippet in summer conditions. --Louis | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
| Troutnut | May 31st, 2007, 5:23 pm | |
| Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1115 | The barb on a size 500 hook is practically non-existent. That's good! Now I won't have to pinch the barbs down when I'm tying flies for the E. coli hatch. | |
| Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut | ||
| DMM | May 31st, 2007, 10:28 pm | |
| Posts: 141 | No, no. You use size 500 hooks to catch damselflies with mayflies! | |
| David | ||
| DMM | May 31st, 2007, 10:39 pm | |
| Posts: 141 | Louis:Do you think the 70 degree F is too high a cut off point in general? As a rule of thumb it's a little high. Rainbow trout are the most tolerant of the higher temps, whereas brook trout, for instance like it cooler. So, it depends. This is where the common sense comes in. If your fish are healthy and energetic after you catch them, and bolt the second they are released, you're probably doing ok (regardless of temp). Ultimately, it's your own personal choice. I personally, am pretty conservative when it comes to C&R, so I would try to avoid salmonid fishing after about the mid-60s. If however, you continue to fish, definitely use heavier tackle. High temp water has less oxygen in it. This means muscle fatigue also takes longer to subside (oxygen is needed to break down lactic acid--the cause of muscle fatigue/soreness/stiffness during exertion). I hope this helps. I want to be informative without handing out mandates. | |
| David | ||
| DMM | May 31st, 2007, 10:42 pm | |
| Posts: 141 | I forgot one other thing... If there are thermal refugia near, your fish should be ok. So, if you catch them where a cooler feeder stream enters the main water body, for instance, they should be fine. Many salmonids use these refugia to survive summer temps. | |
| David | ||
| Martinlf | June 1st, 2007, 9:03 am | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 907 | Thanks, David, I really wanted your view, and will take it into serious consideration. When fishing water in the high 60's I have played fish quickly and held them in the current to revive them if there was any question. All the fish I recall have bolted when released, and seemed very healthy, but I'll revise my cut off downward a bit, I believe. This has been a serious concern of mine, and I'm glad to get more information. | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
| Hendrickson | June 2nd, 2007, 1:43 pm | |
| Posts: 2 | Just for the other side of the debate, total catch-and-release is not the answer in all fishery situations. In fact, it might go too far and there is often nothing wrong with harvesting fish which is why slot limits were created. Case in point is bass. It's been proven that if you release all the bass you are going to end up with 12-inch bass that die at 6-years old. Same applies to trout and nearly everything. There always losses and that can be a boon. I don't use barbless hooks are participate in the moral demensions of how a fish is caught or released. I really do not think that they apply. Fish do move and take up different locations throughout the year. Some studies on one fish showed that after being hooked and released that they would travel miles and eventually return so it depends on the water, whether lake or stream. Depends on what you want. If you want all sorts of trout, then make it total catch-and-release and no doubt stress the forage base. If you a trophy fishery that is an stream that can produce such fishing then taking a few fish out might be a good idea. I've always been against total catch-and-release and messengers of it because it does not make good sense for one. You might need a high and low slot-limit as well, depending upon the area and stream. We are running at over 70-degrees here already so the fish are in their summer patterns of coldwater upwellings. I go with much heavier line at night and do a quick release unless it's a trophy fish I want. They'll make it with coldwater around. Unless I read David wrong, he said that there is not enough sound information to prove that barbless hooks are a benefit. A wound is a wound and fish are tough critters. | |
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