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MartinlfMarch 4th, 2012, 11:54 am
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2911
Me too. One of my favorite patterns recently is a Gary Borger Yarn Wing Dun, with the wing cut short, and much the same kind of shuck as in Tony's fly above. I tie it with an olive thread body, white or chartreuse thread rib, and coat the body with Flexament. Tony, what dubbing are you using? I'll bet it darkens a good bit when wet.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
GutcutterMarch 6th, 2012, 8:39 am
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
Louis
The shuck is Trouthunter CEN in olive and the abdomen is Trouthunter BWO. I have found that this dubbing maintains it's color when treated w silicon floatant. When used with repetitive applications of Frog'sBut (I know you love that stuff) it lightens significantly. Another stream that I fish has a much darker Baetis and I switch to a brown olive when fishing there. Does it matter? It does to me and I love tying so I have many, many duplicates. I have a box of 18 dozen BWO from 14-24.
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
CrepuscularMarch 6th, 2012, 5:47 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
I like that "sparkle dun" as well. In the last 5 or so years I've become a huge fan of CDC especially since the Trouthunter products have come onto the market. Here is a #22 bwo emerger with a synthetic shuck and a small amount of dubbing on the tip of the abdomen. Often times I will remove all the hackle from the base of the fly if I am fishing it in flat water.
MartinlfMarch 6th, 2012, 5:52 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2911
Ok Tony, which silicone floatant are you using?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
GutcutterMarch 6th, 2012, 10:27 pm
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
which silicone floatant are you using?


Tiemco Dry Magic
I apply it only to the dubbed abdomen and thorax, trying my best to spare the CDC

I'm busting your balls a bit about the Frog's Fanny. I use it some, too.
I try to dry out CDC flies (those that use CDC to float the fly) with a rag and fish it without applying anything else.
Once you apply the dessicant, you're doomed to repeat it every four or five casts
But when you have that one special fly that keeps getting fish when others fail, well, you gotta do whatcha gotta do...
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
OldredbarnMarch 7th, 2012, 9:24 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
which silicone floatant are you using?


You know quite some time back Rene Harrop was selling some floatant that was just for CDC...I'll look it up if you guys are not aware of it. I think it was advertised as Preen Oil...I still have some of it somewhere.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
CrepuscularMarch 7th, 2012, 9:36 am
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
Spence, have you used it? If so did you like it? I just got some of that stuff in the mail along with some really nice Hendrickson colored quills. They call it CDC Fly Dressing,it is made with preen oil. I'll be using it the next couple days. High 50's and Low 60's and cloudy with showers, hum, sounds like Baetis weather to me!
EntomanMarch 7th, 2012, 6:42 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Eric -

I like your pattern. I noticed the difficulty you are having in getting the z-lon to melt into a small cohesive spot. I have the same problem with the stuff. Have you thought of using a finer denier antron yarn? It melts much better and its finer texture is actually more realistic for these tiny guys, anyway.

Look at the example of the Callibaetis above to see what I mean. The body is stouter because the natural's is, but the shuck is the same. I only use the courser fibers to simulate the legs. Drag the photo to your desktop and enlarge it to see what I mean.

Tony -
I have found that this dubbing maintains it's color when treated w silicon floatant. When used with repetitive applications of Frog'sBut (I know you love that stuff) it lightens significantly.

On big flies, yes, the gels are best; but on small flies, I forget the gels and fish the fly naked at first. If you use the paste, once the fly gets soaked the moisture gets locked in by the stuff and any powder will stick to it and turn your bodies way too light and the fly needs to be retrated constantly because of the locked in moisture. If you avoid the grease, a good desiccant will clean off pretty good leaving the fly pretty much it's original color and dried out completly, IF you swish it around in the stuff pretty aggessively, take it out and squeeze it in a hanky (squeezes the water out) and swish again. BTW, I find FF way to light to force the moisture out. Perhaps OK for step 2 though.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
CrepuscularMarch 7th, 2012, 8:17 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
Thanks Kurt! Actually I stopped using synthetics for my shucks a while ago but I thought I would give it a try here. I typically use ostrich herl, or marabou that has some mottling to it, but obviously it lacks the translucency. I probably should have tried it on something bigger than a #22 as well... Anyway I'll most likely fish that pattern tomorrow we'll see how it goes... Thanks a lot for your input!
OldredbarnMarch 8th, 2012, 10:09 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Spence, have you used it?


I forgot to look for it last night...We are having our Midwest Rod Show this weekend and I'm taking tomorrow off to help with set up etc...We had a last minute organizational meeting last night...I'll make a note to see if I can find it this weekend sometime.

When I purchased it I really wasn't aware that it was supposed to be for CDC flies and I just used it as a regular floatant...I think I have a paste of the stuff as well. The fact that I still have it may say something...Though I'm thinking I may have mis-used it back then.

I'll get back with you.

I think, to most of us, that floating flies and the stuff we use to pull this off remains problematic. There are quite a few different methods and they all seem to be weak in some respects. Maybe sometimes we are more interested in how a fly looks to ourselves and forget a bit about functional design features that may help the fly ride on top. I remember a wonderful, to myself anyway, March Brown I crafted at the vise that once it was on the water sank like a stone...:) Oops! It was a damn near right on imitation though of a fly landing on the water and diving down to lay its eggs...I wasn't going for that effect though...

Some of the older stuff used was toxic and most can leave an oil slick around your fly...The powder lightens up your fly's color...You work hard to imitate the thing as closely as possible only to turn it white on the river...

The only method I haven't really tried is those where you treat the fly at the vise...Wondering if anyone out there has tried this method and their views on it.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanMarch 8th, 2012, 1:01 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Spence,

I used to Scotchguard my flies at the vice years ago, and it helps a lot, especially with larger flies. But the difference it made for smaller flies wasn't enough to justify filling the air with volatiles constantly, so I quit. There was also a non-oily product put out by several companies that you soaked your flies in and let dry that works pretty good without the spray issues.

Don't apply paste or greasy types while tying! I cringe every time I hear somebody recommending this. Besides making materials slippery and harder to apply accurately, they are counterproductive when it comes to helping flotation in the long run. For small flies, the pastes will help floating initially, but once the fly gets soaked, you have the dickens getting the trapped water out, and the powders stick to it like glue (which led to it's bad rep in this regard). Assuming quality materials used in their construction, the best method I've found is to fish the little flies naked at first. Once they start to flounder, use a good desiccant with the method as mentioned above. After a fish, its amazing how well a few casts dapping the fly against the waters surface will clean off the fly. Much better than swishing it with forceps.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnMarch 8th, 2012, 2:55 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Thanks for the info Kurt.

Robert Traver
An aside...Voelker's grandson is going to do a presentation Sunday at our rod show about his grandpa...He fished with him since he was a little guy and he's hinting at spilling the beans on the old man...Should be interesting!

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanMarch 9th, 2012, 6:18 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Ah! Look forward to your report, Spence. He's one of my all-time favorites!
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
CrepuscularMarch 9th, 2012, 6:38 pm
Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 919
I used the trout hunter preen oil today and it seemed to work pretty well. I wish I could say that I caught dozens of fish to really put the stuff through it's paces. But we a steady 15-20 knot zephyr today and surface activity was limited, and what there was was on midges. But that being said I did catch a half dozen fish on a single fly treated with the stuff. I would dry the fly off after releasing a fish and then re-apply. The fly was a size 24 midge with CDC wings.
PaulRobertsApril 17th, 2012, 11:17 am
Colorado

Posts: 1776
Found this photo series of an emerging Baetis:

http://www.utahonthefly.com/entomology/BWO/emerging/
MartinlfApril 17th, 2012, 4:07 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2911
Way, way cool. Love it. Wish we had photos like these, and videos, for more bugs!
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
OldredbarnApril 21st, 2012, 3:12 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Nice set of photos Paul! -Spence

PS I noticed in one of my above posts that I was supposed to report back here about the grandson of Voelker speaking at our rod show in March...After doing set-up all day on Friday and following April Vokey all day Saturday :) I passed on another visit to the show on Sunday. I was told that it was wonderful and they promised to somehow re-do it since late Sunday left them with a small audience.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanApril 22nd, 2012, 2:08 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Spence -

I figured that would happen when you mentioned the venue. That Flygal is a tough act for a poor relative of Robert Traver's to have to compete with. I won't hold it against you too long for getting led astray.:)

Guys - Check out the third photo on the left of Paul's link
http://www.utahonthefly.com/entomology/BWO/emerging/ (re-inserted here so you won't have to scroll back and forth through the thread). I meant to do this sooner but got distracted. Anyway, it shows the rationale for emergers with looped wings made of mallard flank and also why they should be swept back and split. The shape and look of the shuck too. It's often worth the trouble to imitate these characters at this stage on calmer waters as I've observed the bugs can often get stuck looking like this for quite awhile. Many thanks Paul, for the photo link! I've seen this a lot but still had to dress from memory until now.


BTW - the captions to the photos are a little misleading in a couple areas. First, the immature looks to be a different species. In my experience the nymphs don't darken that substantially except in the thoracic region. Secondly, the first thing visible where the shuck splits is the mesonotum and pronotum, not the wings. Even the heads usually spring out before the wings, that are carried low and to the side before starting to spring up and open like an Asian paper fan. A lot of times the very tips of one or both will stay stuck in the case, accentuating the "looped" look.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
PaulRobertsApril 23rd, 2012, 12:47 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776
Kurt, I assume you are referring to the "bubble" the wide halo created by the split fore-shuck. It's these details fish can key on, and we do too. It actually gets my heart going a bit. ;)
EntomanApril 23rd, 2012, 3:06 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Paul, actually I was referring to the wings, though I agree the widening of the shuck at the thorax is a trigger as well. Notice the rounded speckled edge and their posture? Toggling between the photos, the similarity really lept out at me.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
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