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Jmd123August 14th, 2012, 12:06 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2354
Yep, we got those zebra mussels here and they are throwing things considerably out of whack. Although, while they may be affecting the pelagic food chain (open-water - algae being eaten by zooplankton being eaten by whitefish being eaten by salmon/lake trout), apparently the increased water clarity is allowing for increased weed growth, which in turn is leading to increasing populations of walleye, smallmouth, pike...so maybe, just maybe there is an upside to their presence. They say lake sturgeon eat them too, and we could use more lake sturgeon, they are native to these parts and have been depleted by overfishing and dam building. I'm sure it's going to take some time for the balance to be restored. But it's the Asain carp invasion that worries us the most right now - in Illinois they are on the order of 90% of the biomass in their rivers. SCREW THAT, I don't want an uncatchable fish that destroys habitat (weedbeds) for all other fish species taking over our ecosystems! I'll get my freaking 12 guage out and start killing them myself as they jump out of the water if it come down to that...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
StrmanglrAugust 14th, 2012, 12:27 pm
Posts: 136Jmd, did you hear about the sturgeon beds they are putting in the Detroit R. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/GreatLakes/1ColumnSubPage/STDPROD_083583.html

I wondered if they would eat zebra mussels, as I understand it they only go about 35ft down to eat.

Anyway the gravel beds in Detroit R. are awesome. It's amazing what can happen with just a little care.

"I'll get my freaking 12 guage out and start killing them myself as they jump out of the water if it come down to that..."

lol, My friend said the same thing exactly. He said they should have competitions in those states now with the fish. What a picture, a bunch of people out on a lake firing off shotguns. You might be a redneck if . . .

Jmd123August 14th, 2012, 1:01 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2354
I used to work for a company called JJR in Ann Arbor that designed those sturgeon spawning beds, and from what I have heard they are working quite well, in fact another endangered fish species, the northern madtom (a tiny catfish no more than a few inches long), has been observed on these gravel beds as well.

As far as shotguns go for the Asian carp, it sounds like a lot of fun but also very dangerous! Especially as I'm sure that alcohol would get involved...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
WestCOAugust 14th, 2012, 10:46 pm
Palisade, CO

Posts: 65
Why are Asian Carp uncatchable?
...but fishermen I have noticed, they don't care if I'm rich or poor, wearing robes or waders, all they care about is the fish, the river, and the game we play. For fishermen, the only virtues are patience, tolerance, and humility. I like this.
Jmd123August 14th, 2012, 11:22 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2354
They're vegetarians, wherein lies the problem with both the uncatchability and the destruction of habitat for other fishes - they eat all the weeds! And unlike the common carp, I don't think they eat anything else. I suppose you could put some lettuce on a hook...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
WestCOAugust 17th, 2012, 1:06 am
Palisade, CO

Posts: 65
Well that clears up a misconception then. I thought they were bad because they gorged on other fish. Aren't those the ones that jump into the boat when people go by? I know very little about them (obviously) I just saw a thing about them on one of the channels like Discovery or History.

On another note, as I've learned more about ecosystems in the past 10 years, one thing I've definitely come to understand, and something you alluded to, is that the things that kill rivers aren't things that directly kill fish. I'm not sure that people who don't really study the ecosystem understand that. For instance, something that really affects rivers in Colorado is mining tailings and runoff, and I think that people are confused as to how that kills fish. The same can be said for Zebra Mussels which are relatively new to Colorado. How can something like a snail kill a fish? But as we learn, the smallest elements of life in our waters are just as important as the fish themselves.
...but fishermen I have noticed, they don't care if I'm rich or poor, wearing robes or waders, all they care about is the fish, the river, and the game we play. For fishermen, the only virtues are patience, tolerance, and humility. I like this.
PaulRobertsAugust 17th, 2012, 11:00 am
Colorado

Posts: 1776

On another note, as I've learned more about ecosystems in the past 10 years, one thing I've definitely come to understand, and something you alluded to, is that the things that kill rivers aren't things that directly kill fish. I'm not sure that people who don't really study the ecosystem understand that. For instance, something that really affects rivers in Colorado is mining tailings and runoff, and I think that people are confused as to how that kills fish. The same can be said for Zebra Mussels which are relatively new to Colorado. How can something like a snail kill a fish? But as we learn, the smallest elements of life in our waters are just as important as the fish themselves.

Exactly. It's a tangled web woven long before us -3.5 billion years worth. Many of us would like to keep as much of it around as possible, whether we understand, even recognize, it all or not.

Scary, sad, to realize that most people, each wielding tremendous unprecedented power to influence things, aren't even aware of what they trod on. You can't value what you don't see, unless perhaps you've glimpsed just enough of it. Angling is a direct tap into that ancient system -a glimpse.
MotroutAugust 17th, 2012, 3:52 pm
Posts: 319
Fly fishing for Asian carp has become popular among a segment of the angling population here in Missouri. They are catchable on the fly, though I get the sense they can be pretty difficult. Most think that they just take out of curiosity more than anything else. I've yet to try it, but so long as they're taking those fish out of the system, I'm fully supportive!
"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
UgsisrMay 10th, 2015, 12:51 am
North East Pa. USA

Posts: 1
This subject came up tonight after hearing about a fellow fly fisherman catching and killing (Banking) several smallmouth bass... I seldom find myself fishing for stocked trout and prefer fishing for wild trout, mainly brook and brown trout. I realize the balance to keep these fisheries thriving is delicate but in no way approve in playing God and killing other species besides trout. What is your thought when killing other fish? You like trout fishing so its okay to kill all other species? Please dont play with Mother Nature...She has a handle on her duties and does not need some wanna be do gooder to help out....Tight Lines!
OldredbarnMay 10th, 2015, 1:28 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2587
I realize the balance to keep these fisheries thriving is delicate but in no way approve in playing God and killing other species besides trout. What is your thought when killing other fish? You like trout fishing so its okay to kill all other species? Please dont play with Mother Nature...She has a handle on her duties and does not need some wanna be do gooder to help out....Tight Lines!


Ken,

I think we are too late with the, "don't play with Mother Nature" deal. We have planted voracious salmonids from Europe and the west coast of the US in nearly every viable and not-so-viable stream across the globe. Whether or not they ever existed in these streams. Trout eat other fish just as much as smallies.

I too am not fond of the "managing the resource" mantra of our state's DNR's and I'm also not too fond of tossing fish up on the bank as "garbage fish". When I was a kid fishing with the local boys on the "crick" up near my grandmother's place, I witnessed them tossing suckers in the bushes when caught.

I think we have long since screwed up any original balance...The ego of men, yahoo's all, can be a messed up self-serving stinky pile of you know what! :)

Getting them to just leave well enough alone is an impossible task and the vermin just keep reproducing. Good luck with this.

Don't beat yourself up too much over it though...If we can can get away with your anthropomorphising of "nature" by calling it a "Mother"...Just to continue this...She will one day stand us all up, tell us to touch our toes, and whip the hell out of us with something more serious than the belt my mom would use on my rascally ass!

Spence

Happy Mother's Day, by-the-way. :)

Next topic then...It is now the rule in streams in Yellowstone to destroy Browns and Brooks caught there...Lakers in Yellowstone Lake. In Red Rock Creek Preserve they are killing Cutts to preserve the stream as a Grayling creek, while a few miles east in Yellowstone Park they are trying to preserve the Cutts?!? When you figure it all out sir, please drop me a line.

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
RMlytleMay 11th, 2015, 5:04 pm
Connecticut

Posts: 40
When you figure it all out sir, please drop me a line.


People are bat crap crazy.
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