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Lycorias has attached these 4 pictures to aid in identification. The message is below.
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LycoriasMarch 19th, 2007, 11:09 am
Posts: 2Hi all,

I'm working on a hatch chart and I'm having some difficulty in matching up some of the winter stone nymphs with the adults. I'm trying to take photos of the winter blacks, tiny blacks and early browns of the mid-west and east.

Any help in identifying the attached with there common and Latin names would be of help.

Thanks,

Lycorias
TaxonMarch 19th, 2007, 1:41 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
Lycorias-

It is problematic to even attempt family identification without photos that will allow zooming without distortion in order to examine tarsal segments. Having said that, the photo labeled A appears to be of family Nemouridae, which are commonly called Spring Stoneflies or Forestflies, and the photo labeled B appears to be of family Capniidae, which are commonly called Slender Winter Stoneflies or Snowflies. I wouldn’t even hazard a guess as to the adults.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
TroutnutMarch 19th, 2007, 2:29 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
I hope this doesn't open up a rip in the space-time continuum or something, but I'm going to have to correct Taxon about a bug! Nymph B has the telltale wingpad shape of the Taeniopterygidae family. I would need a bottom view to see if it's in one of the most common genera, Taeniopteryx, in that family. If you remember that it had little gills below the thorax, then it's Taeniopteryx. Otherwise it could be any of several genera, most commonly Strophopteryx probably.

Adult D is in the same family; I recognize the general "look" of it from specimens I've collected, but I can also barely make out the key feature: that the first tarsal segment on each leg is about the same length as the second segment.

Adult C seems to have many segments on the cerci, so that probably puts it in Capniidae.

I can't see all the key features necessary to figure out Nymph A, but Taxon's suggestion of Nemouridae is a good one.

By the way, good idea to label them A/B/C/D!
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
TaxonMarch 19th, 2007, 10:51 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
Nymph B has the telltale wingpad shape of the Taeniopterygidae family.


Yes, it certainly does. I really blew that one, but the good thing about being old is, I'll likely be unable to remember it come morning.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
LycoriasMarch 20th, 2007, 5:49 am
Posts: 2Thanks Roger and Jason for your help.

Lycorias
GONZOMarch 20th, 2007, 10:56 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Lycorias,

Even without being able to see the single, finger-like gills on each coxa that Jason mentioned, the middorsal stripe on nymph B would seem to indicate that Taeniopteryx is the likely genus. While some of the other characters are too faint or indistinct to be sure, if pressed, I'd guess T. nivalis--the early brown stonefly or boreal willowfly.

...the good thing about being old is, I'll likely be unable to remember it come morning.

I'm not sure which one of us is older, Roger, but it's nice to know that age does have its compensations. :)
TaxonMarch 20th, 2007, 2:03 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1294
I'm not sure which one of us is older, Roger, but it's nice to know that age does have its compensations.

Gonzo-

Assuming you are the only one of your namesake in Boiling Springs, you're 16 years my junior. In any event, just be sure to enjoy each and every one of those years to their fullest, as I have found the compensations of age to be somewhat overrated.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
GONZOMarch 20th, 2007, 2:42 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
OK, Roger, I'm not even going to ask how you figured that out, but you're scaring me. If you find out anything I should know about my credit rating, please tell me! :)
TroutnutMarch 20th, 2007, 4:31 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
It is a bit scary how easy it is to find that kind of information. I tried it out of curiosity... it took about 15 seconds to find out how old you both are. :) Gonzo, apart from your street address, age, and phone number, nothing else was too readily available. At least somebody might have to dig or pay for it.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZOMarch 20th, 2007, 4:38 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Yeah, I know it's a new age and I'm trying to adjust, but sometimes I'd like to drop off the grid and become a "blank." I know, I know...I shouldn't have written that damn book! :(
TroutnutMarch 20th, 2007, 5:13 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
I shouldn't have written that damn book! :(


That would be a crime!

When do we get a second edition? ;)

I guess I can wait a little while, since your book is pretty new and the only room I see for improvement is to expand it with more of the same good stuff. But this already promises to be an exciting year in bug books, with the new Merritt & Cummins coming out and supposedly the posthumous publication of the revised edition of Ernest Schwiebert's Nymphs. I really can't wait for that one.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZOMarch 20th, 2007, 6:48 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
...and supposedly the posthumous publication of the revised edition of Ernest Schwiebert's Nymphs. I really can't wait for that one.

Ditto! I talked to Ernie about this shortly before he died. He claimed that he had to redo just about everything but the title. I hope he didn't change the lovely vignettes about various streams and settings--those were my favorites.
TroutnutMarch 20th, 2007, 7:10 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
He claimed that he had to redo just about everything but the title. I hope he didn't change the lovely vignettes about various streams and settings--those were my favorites.


I agree. His knack for those is what really sets him apart from anyone else I've read. Many do it well, but he was the best.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist

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