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> baetids, leaders, flies, and knots, Page 2

Martinlf	August 9th, 2007, 2:52 pm
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 3233	Hi all, I've resurrected this old thread mainly so Matt and anyone else interested can take a look at the baetis article I link to in my March 12 post above. I still find the emerging olive photo very instructive as I design and tie olives for the summer hatches on the Delaware. Also, some of the earlier posts may cool us down a bit. It's hard to imagine late winter olives just now, with the heat index in central PA around 100, but I look forward to fleece and cold. I can't remove enough layers now to be comfortable.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell
Martinlf	August 9th, 2007, 7:21 pm
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 3233	I'm having quite a conversation with myself here, but hope to lure Taxon and Konchu in with this question. As I started tying some tiny olives (26-22) today and took a look back at the Harrop photo I mention just above, I began to wonder if the Acentrellas and other tiny BWO's look similar in emergence, or if their mechanism of emergence produces a different look. Or perhaps there are many different patterns of emergence within a species that produce very different looking emergers for the same bug. I'm also thinking of how the wings look at different stages, what typical shucks may look like, etc. This leads me to consider different kinds of shucks, including the style Gonzo ties in his shucking olive and blue quill emergers, which looks a lot like the shape of the shuck in the photo. I duplicate this look with a CDC shuck by tying thread around the upper end of the shuck, at the hook, then pulling the knot to a desired point down the shuck toward the end, and fixing that point with a drop of super glue (I do the same with Gonzo's antron shuck as well). Does anyone know more about the shapes of baetid emergers, or know of more photos of emerging baetids they could cite?
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell
Konchu	August 10th, 2007, 5:41 am
Site Editor Indiana Posts: 505	A few quick points, then I need to run... Some of the Acentrella are real quick off the water. When I reared out an Acentrella in Great Smoky Mountains NP, I saw the nymph rising in the cup of water that I'd just put it in. I handed it to my wife, turned my back, and BOOM the dun was about ready to fly away. This happened repeatedly, right before our eyes. Possibly the conditions of the day, or else that's the way they do it. For these, at least, the only time of real vulnerability would be when the nymph was rising. Something else I noticed was how some Acentrella and possibly Baetis nymphs moved before they emerged. They seemed to make several false starts to the water's surface. They'd swim almost straight up, with dramatic undulations, almost thrashing about, then passively fall back to the bottom. This occurred in still water, so perhaps the action was different in the rapid areas of the stream that I could not see. I suspect this was the dun trapped inside the shuck, trying to loosen its ill-fitting suit.
Martinlf	August 10th, 2007, 5:49 am
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 3233	Interesting. Gonzo has pointed out similar behavior in some Ephemerellidae, such as Drunella and Ephemerella nymphs. Oh, by the way, in reference to knots I've had trouble with the Orvis, and have gone back to the 7 turn clinch for now.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell
Shawnny3	August 10th, 2007, 6:06 am
Moderator Pleasant Gap, PA Posts: 1197	Interesting notes, guys. I'm paying attention even though I don't have anything to contribute. So, Louis, after all that knot ado, you're back to the ol' clinch, huh? Is there a chance people like you and I make this knot nonsense overly complicated? -Shawn
	Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis www.davisflydesigns.com
Martinlf	August 10th, 2007, 10:27 am
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 3233	Yeah, I've realized that it probably makes a difference whether you thread the tippet up or down into the hook eye when tying the Orvis, and I may not have been doing that right, but I had bad luck with the Orvis Froghair combination this season and have sworn off both. I haven't given up on better knots entirely though. :) Tghe Ligature works find, so it has become my standard tippet knot. I now use a 7-turn Clinch instead of my old 6-turn model, and I use the Kreh non slip loop some, along with the Trilene knot for larger tippets. I'm also still probably going to work with some others such as the 16-20 later. In addition, Caddisman showed me a new knot--if I could only remember it . . . so diehard overcomplicaters never give up, they just move on.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell

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