Troutnut Forum > Fly Tying Discussion > Emerger hooks, Page 2
| Martinlf | December 29th, 2006, 9:59 am | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 905 | Most interesting! So I may end up using the hooks to tie Klinkhammers. . . :) But let me venture to take issue in a small way with Gonzo, while listening closely and absorbing his main point. (Thanks Jason, for giving me some cover here.) He knows my penchant for upside down ties, and how much I value getting that hook bend out of the water for some of my patterns. Is it possible, though, that these umbrella flies will do something with pressured fish that I believe is important at times--show them a somewhat reasonable facsimile that is new? If they have not become wary of the hook, this new fly, under the right conditions, could be THE FLY one day, even if not every day. I rarely find a fish that will inspect endless offerings without being spooked, but last spring several of these types tortured me during a Baetis hatch on the low clear waters of Spring Creek in State College (Don't worry Jason, nothing I do here could add to the pressure--these fish can name more patterns than Gonzo can, and they can tell the farm the hackle came from.). I ran through my upside down flies, my scud hook emergers, my hackle flies, and everything else before I remembered a fly I had tied from a guide's pattern out west. The first take so surprised me, I missed the hookup. But those picky fish either saw the emerger, tied on a black Varivas scud hook, as someting new or as a more exact copy of what they were dining on. I went home and, perhaps superstitiously, reproduced the exact tie, same hook, same hackle, same wings, same spectrumized dubbing, same dark brown biot with a thin almost reddish brown lighter streak. I must note that a duck butt RS2 also took a few fish that day, though not as many, and that the next picky trout I tried both patterns on (different stream--no name this time) SEEMED to much prefer the RS2! Go figure. Anyway those Ph.D.'d fish at State College may see the umbrella fly this spring, and anytime they'll bite, I'm pleased. I'll finally note that I just wrote up a tying list and all the flies on it, with the exception of Jason's royal Wulff (though I plan to tie it Klink style), come straight from Gonzo's book. | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
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| GONZO | December 29th, 2006, 12:53 pm | |
| "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 876 | Darn! Another refusal! Louis and Jason, I must confess that sometimes my fly-fisher's mind tends to use this forum as a poor man's substitute for actual fly fishing. Occasionally I'll cast what I think is a seductive statement onto these waters in the hope that I can convince one of you sly and discerning troutnuts to rise to the bait. In this case, I have presented this particular enticement three times, and have only succeeded in getting rises to adjacent ideas. (Actually, I had previously offered a variation of this lure in another thread, and had no takers.) I need to rethink my strategy! Perhaps my presentation was flawed. Or perhaps the idea was not attractive enough to draw attention amid all the other mind-food on the water. I think I'll rest the water. I've learned that if you can't get a rise in the first few drifts, you need to stop casting for a while. I don't want to spook my favorite troutnut targets! :) | |
| Martinlf | December 29th, 2006, 5:15 pm | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 905 | Gonzo, Lift! Lift! You may have a fish on and didn't see the cautious rise. I actually trust your overall logic, and trust that these flies may only work on naive fish, if any, but I do want those Spring Creek fish to be the final arbiters. If they'll eat them, any trout will. You observed above, 'Even in these situations, I can't see the advantage of emphasizing the "double hernia" hook image over fussy flat-water fish as these flies do.' With a brain the size of a pea, trout may miss some of the points we have debated so furiously, and simply see something that looks like food up there. If the hook becomes a problem for some fish, it appears that the umbrella fly will at least present a hook image that is very different from the one they get in a standard dry fly. The general argument, anyway, as you well know, is that most fish ignore the hook and focus on the edible image. So, if real mayflies that are riding high do create the Marinaro footprint, and if under certain conditions that footprint signals food, and if some fish prefer that stage of the bug--now I'm inclined to quote Touchstone, "Your If is the only peacemaker. Much virtue in If"--a fly that creates a footprint and holds the entire body above the water may work well at times, hook visible or not. If the umbrellas work it will be helpful--those darn Goddard flies are so hard to tie, and don't always land wing up. After all this I now see you don't need to lift yet--I was just following your artful presentation backward, watching for drag. Drag hasn't set in yet, nor have I risen. This will just take some time. P.S. Perhaps I'm only arguing like a man who just paid too much for a car that may not start: those hooks weren't cheap. Ok, I'll stop beating a dead trout. Er, . . . make that carp. | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
| Troutnut | December 29th, 2006, 11:29 pm | |
| Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1115 | Don't worry that I'm not rising... I'm just not hungry at the moment! (Translation: Very busy holiday plans have me spending a tiny fraction of my usual time on the Internet.) | |
| Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut | ||
| Upnorth2 | December 30th, 2006, 4:31 pm | |
| Wisconsin Posts: 62 | With a brain the size of a pea, trout may miss some of the points we have debated so furiously, and simply see something that looks like food up there. If the hook becomes a problem for some fish, it appears that the umbrella fly will at least present a hook image that is very different from the one they get in a standard dry fly. The general argument, anyway, as you well know, is that most fish ignore the hook and focus on the edible image. I think you have said what I basically believe. I'm not one for mayfly footprints either. Light changes too much for them to have any real affect and fishing our late-night hatches here......it makes no difference. You have to be ready for changing conditions and conditioned fish. It takes lots of tricks. | |
| Martinlf | January 4th, 2007, 8:38 am | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 905 | Just tied my first umbrella fly; it looks very good viewed from below, with the extended body and Gonzo style poly wing clearly visible. We'll let the trout be the final judges, though. | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
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