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GripngrinNovember 27th, 2006, 4:30 pm
Front Range - Colorado

Posts: 17
We have been fishing the lower Gunnison over the last couple of years and read that it has the largest concentration of stoneflies in North America. On several trips we have seen as many as four different stones hatching simultaneously. All shapes & sizes, black, brown, golden, blueish-grey, etc.
What made this river so unique for stoneflies?

Mike
Grip'n Grin Mike
GONZONovember 27th, 2006, 7:47 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Hi Mike,

I would imagine that the Gunnison provides suitable habitat for a wide range of species and probably has exceptional habitat for some. Rivers with cold, well-oxygenated water and diverse habitat (wood, rocks, vegetation, leaf packs, extensive riffles or pocket water) often host a great number of stonefly species. Because some stoneflies are carnivores and others are detritovores, a good mix of prey species and plant material is necessary to create population diversity and abundance. It also says positive things about the relative lack of harmful pollutants. I hope you have been able to take good advantage of this plethora of Plecoptera!
TaxonNovember 27th, 2006, 9:41 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1310
plethora of Plecoptera!


Very cute Gonzo; long live alliteration!
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
GONZONovember 28th, 2006, 11:55 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Thanks for noticing, Roger. Actually, I try to keep a rein on my use of alliteration. I know that some don't share my fondness for the device. As a cautionary tale, I remember the West Wing episode where Toby Zeigler was criticizing Will Bailey's use of alliteration in speechwriting. He said, "I needed an avalanche of Advil!"
TroutnutNovember 28th, 2006, 3:47 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2569
Speaking of wonderful alliteration, has either of you seen the movie V for Vendetta? It the best alliterative monologue I've seen in a movie.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZONovember 28th, 2006, 6:36 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Thanks for the tip, Jason. I haven't seen V, but now I will. "Best alliterative monologue" sounds like a promising category for the Oscars. Does the Academy know about this?
TroutnutNovember 28th, 2006, 9:58 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2569
They should add it just for that movie, although I think it deserves nominations at least in a couple of other categories. I don't know your taste in movies, but it is one of the most cerebral I've seen in the "fun action movie" genre. I liked it enough to buy a costume of the main character for Halloween this year, which went over very well at the party!

I have the piece of the script with the great alliteration and I'd be happy to post it here, but I'll refrain if you'd rather see it in the movie.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZONovember 28th, 2006, 10:49 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Other than avoiding movies that qualify as "chick flicks," my taste is pretty eclectic. (I confess to a strong liking for film noir, and even though I protest at the "cf" category, I'll admit that my wife has forced me to watch a few that didn't totally suck.) I suspect that this monologue made such a strong impression on you for reasons in addition to the impressive alliteration (like the delivery and the context), so I'll wait to get the full effect from the movie. Thanks.

If you want to post a picture of you in your Halloween costume, however, I'm sure that would be good for at least a chuckle or two! :)
TroutnutNovember 29th, 2006, 8:59 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2569
Then I think you'll like V.

The movie reminded me a lot of Orwell's 1984, although I read that a long time ago so the sense of similarity comes from the vague impression left in my memory. This movie and that book are both about a struggle against a media-controlling fascist dictatorship, but I'm not sure how much further the similarity goes.

Oh, yes, the costume. Give me a moment.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
TroutnutNovember 29th, 2006, 9:03 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2569
Here, this should be good for a chuckle or two or ten:

Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZONovember 29th, 2006, 9:52 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :), the inner Troutnut revealed!
(My apologies to Mike, and anyone else who clicked on this thread hoping for a stimulating discussion of stoneflies!) :)
SayfuAugust 20th, 2011, 8:48 am
Posts: 560
Question for you on stones...Do all the nymphs crawl out, or do some transform on the surface? I believe there are some yellow sallies that hatch on the surface. I have never seen them transform on the surface, but have been told by someone that you can hardly see them on the surface...they lay flat, and their smokey grey wings blend right in. True, or not true?
TaxonAugust 20th, 2011, 12:09 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1310
sayfu-

Apparently true. This is what entomologist and flyfishing author, Rick Hafele has to say about Little Yellow Stones emergence behavior on his website.

Mature nymphs normally find a large rock protruding above the water upon which to climb out of the water for emergence into the adult, or they crawl out of the water onto shoreline vegetation for adult emergence. There are some interesting exceptions to this normal emergence behavior however. Several species have been observed emerging directly in the surface film similar to a mayfly nymph. One species, Isoperla longiseta, has actually been seen walking on the underside of the surface film in some Alberta streams, apparently looking for floating debris to crawl out on for emergence. Because of such varying emergence behavior, you should study both the insect behavior and fish feeding behavior carefully before selecting your fly and fishing technique during a hatch of little yellow stones.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
EntomanAugust 20th, 2011, 4:11 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
This behavior with the smaller Perlodidae and Chloroperlidae is more common than most think, at least out West. Many rivers have very important hatches of these little guys where they exhibit this behavior. They come to the surface without a lot of commotion fully ready for flight. This suggests they shed their exuviae well below the water's surface, probably from the stream bottom because cripples or dangling shucks aren't observed. They just show up like ghosts and ride the current before taking flight. This usually happens in moderate runs that may be as deep as four feet or more, not in the broken waters of shallow riffles. Trey Combs reports that even some large perlids may also do this out West under the right circumstances, though I have never observed this personally.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
SayfuAugust 21st, 2011, 8:53 am
Posts: 560
A angler of considerable note, one of our local guru's that was a Montana guide, now works for ClackaCraft driftboats, and often quoted in the paper,...I asked him one time what could have been going on. I was standing ankle deep in a riffle with what I thought was a pre-emergence of PMD's PMD's had been consistent to then. I could see a pod of big cutthroat feeding sub surface about 3-5" under, white mouths opening all over, and tried everything, and struck out. He said at the near same time he was fishing up river in a riffle, and the same thing, no apparent emergence of anything, and then he looked at his waders, and there were yellow sallies crawling up his waders. He put his head at water level, and couldn't see them floating on the surface.
EntomanSeptember 3rd, 2011, 3:01 am
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Sayfu - Ah, very interesting. Why not? Sounds credible to me. I should have clarified that I've never seen this behavior exhibited in the faster riffles, not that it doesn't happen.

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

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