Troutnut Forum > Fly Hatch Talk > Anyone have hellgrammite experiences to share?, Page 2
This topic is about the Insect Family Corydalidae
Hellgrammites are the vicious larvae of the Dobsonflies, some of the only trout stream insects which pose a biting threat to the angler. The pincers of the adult are even more frightening that the larva's, and they're aggressive enough to use them once in a while.
This family's life cycle does not create good dry fly opportunities, but the larvae may be eaten by trout year-round. They are a secret told only by stomach samples of well-fed trout. Read more...
There are 6 more specimens...
The Discussion
| Jlh42581 | February 19th, 2007, 4:56 pm | |
| Milesburg, Pa Posts: 24 | Hellgramites are the ticket on smallmouths in the rivers. They easily outfish anything Ive ever fished! | |
| Jeremy | ||
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| Troutnut | February 19th, 2007, 5:40 pm | |
| Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1122 | Do you have a recommended pattern? | |
| Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut | ||
| Jlh42581 | March 1st, 2007, 9:34 pm | |
| Milesburg, Pa Posts: 24 | The one I tie is this Size 10 heavy wire hook Legs 20 lb mono Body - Dark Brown Rabbit Shellback Turkey Tail Ribbing - Copper or Mono Tail?/Suction - goose biots split like stonefly but not as wide Tie in your split tail, tie in the turkey and wire. Advance thread and tie in mono for legs, i do four sets, and use the 5th set at the hook eye as the pincers. Wrap thread back to bend hit the tie in point of all the leg sets with superglue and let dry. Then I add some life to the mono legs with a heated bodkin, making them look in motion. I also form the pincers with the heat. Dub your selected color going between all sets of legs. Dont go the whole way to the eye, I stop after the third set, pull the turkey section over the top, lash down, rib with wire or mono then cut off the wire or mono. Then i dub more and pull the turkey over one last time forming the collar. Whip finish. Now go back and pluck out some gills between each set of legs. I like mine pretty fuzzy, i reallly pick it out, then trim it. When I got about 3 of them, I mix some epoxy, cut up some clear krystal flash, mix that in then cover the back of the fly with the epoxy. Heres where you can get really creative, changing the shell back the color of the dubbing, the color of the flash, heck you can even throw a drop of food color into the epoxy and change the color of it. They dont make the same bass lure in fifty different colors for no reason! Of course, you can use clear epoxy, but i definately recommend you use epoxy, this fly is time consuming, you dont want a fish ripping the shellback apart after a few fish. Good luck! | |
| Jeremy | ||
| Martinlf | March 2nd, 2007, 8:35 am | |
| Palmyra PA Posts: 933 | Neat tie. I'll bet the smallmouth love this one. | |
| Louis Is it not an art to deceive a trout with an artificial fly? A trout! that is more sharp-sighted than any hawk . . . and more watchful and timorous than your high-mettled merlin is bold! --Izaak Walton The Compleat Angler | ||
| Jlh42581 | March 6th, 2007, 9:55 am | |
| Milesburg, Pa Posts: 24 |  | |
| Jeremy | ||
| RFL171 | March 19th, 2007, 1:35 pm | |
| Posts: 1 | I was fishing in the Pocono Mts.(PA) a couple of years ago at dusk and happen to come across an insect that scared me half to death. It was over 4" long (and as thick as my ring finger) with a double set of elongated wings. The prehistoric thing about this flying insect was it's HUGE set of pincers. I picked up the insect to give it a look and it nearly grabbed my finger with the scariest set of pincers I have ever encountered! When I suddenly dropped the insect it flew off like a small helicopter. I have not seen one since and had often wondered what exact type of insect it was. Since visiting this website I have seen photos of Dobson Fly larvae and the description (vicious they stated) of the insect but have not seen a photo of an adult which could satisfy my curiosity of what I encountered that early eve in Pennsylvania. Can anyone provide/direct me to a possible photo of this monster? Thanks, RFL | |
| Troutnut | March 19th, 2007, 5:33 pm | |
| Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1122 | RFL, it probably was an adult dobsonfly/fishfly. Check out this page on BugGuide.net. Some of the adults have pincers like the larvae, and others look like some kind of mammoth with huge tusks. I want to get some good photos of one this spring, but the adults can be a little hard to come by. | |
| Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut | ||
| Serotonin | March 19th, 2007, 7:35 pm | |
| Posts: 6 | RFL... that Definately sounds like a Dobson Fly; Male. As Jason mentioned, the adults can be hard to come by, sometimes. You got lucky... you didn't get pincered. ;) This past summer I had a live female in a jar for two weeks. (Yeah, I know how bad that sounds). Hey... it was a gift from someone who knew I'd like it... ;) Anyhow, I was hoping that someone could elaborate on the Timing and Behavior of the adults. I realize that "conventional" wisdom says that the adults have no meaning for the flyfisherman. However, three weeks ago I was pleased to witness a presentation by Mr. Robert Boyle. On those Really windy days, when flyfishing seems impossible and everyone goes to the nearest bar, I wanna be out on the river experimenting with this: http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9780811701426 Sounds kooky...? Sounds like Fun! | |
| Jlh42581 | March 28th, 2007, 12:17 pm | |
| Milesburg, Pa Posts: 24 | Timing on adults would be about mid summer, at night! Also, they hybernate on the shore during the winter, walk along a river and flip rocks, youll find them. | |
| Jeremy | ||
| GONZO | March 28th, 2007, 12:48 pm | |
| "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 952 | Hi Jeremy, Hellgrammites pupate terrestrially (in the damp sand or soil along the stream), but I'm not aware of any terrestrial "hibernation." Some sources claim that the pupation period is rather short (about ten days), so I'm at a loss to explain what you might be seeing in the winter. Can anyone help to clarify this? | |
| Taxon | March 28th, 2007, 2:51 pm | |
| Mercer Island, WA Posts: 506 | Gonzo- The only thing I would add to your description is that (at least a portion of) the last larval instar is terrestrial, during which time an unlined underground cell is prepared for transformation to pupal form. It is my impression that the total time duration for the prepupal (and pupal) form is two weeks or less, and that the longer portion of this time may be the prepupal period. The timing (winter), behavior (hibernation), and habitat (under rocks) would all seem to be wrong for dobsonfly pupae. | |
| Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| GONZO | March 28th, 2007, 3:27 pm | |
| "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 952 | Thanks, Roger. As usual, the information you provide is very helpful. In an older post above, I mentioned finding terrestrial hellgrammites that were bright yellow (indicating a recent molt). Would you guess that this reflects a prepupal or a pupal stage? | |
| DMM | March 28th, 2007, 8:23 pm | |
| Posts: 141 | Pupae are often bright yellow. You needn't worry about the "pincers," either, as they are mostly non-functional. | |
| David | ||
| Taxon | March 28th, 2007, 10:14 pm | |
| Mercer Island, WA Posts: 506 | Gonzo- I don't usually base much on color, because it is so variable. However, dobsonflies don't develop obvious wing pads until pupation. So, if your yellow terrestrial questionables had them, they would be pupae. Otherwise, they would be prepupae. Please see illustrations below:   | |
| Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
| GONZO | March 29th, 2007, 1:17 pm | |
| "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 952 | Thanks David and Roger. I don't trust my recollection enough to say if wingpads were present. It was quite some time ago, and the piercing screams of little girls tend to discombobulate my mental processes. :) David--just for my own clarification--my impression was that the formidable-looking "tusks" of the adult males are mostly for show, but that the jaws of the larvae can deliver a healthy pinch. I've never been pinched, but then I tend to handle things that might bite me pretty carefully (or not at all). | |
| Troutnut | March 29th, 2007, 2:47 pm | |
| Fairbanks, AK Posts: 1122 | I don't trust my recollection enough to say if wingpads were present. It was quite some time ago, and the piercing screams of little girls tend to discombobulate my mental processes. :) I hope you weren't too much older than they were at the time! If it was that long ago, are you positive they weren't alderflies? That would explain the yellow in a larva. | |
| Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut | ||
| GONZO | March 29th, 2007, 3:21 pm | |
| "Bear Swamp," PA Posts: 952 | No, these were three-inch Lehigh monsters. They were instantly recognizable as hellgrammites, but with all the screaming, the wingcase details escaped me. (It does seem to ring a bell, but there were other bells ringing at that moment. I thought that one of the girls might have stumbled on a watersnake--or worse!) | |
| DMM | March 29th, 2007, 6:59 pm | |
| Posts: 141 | GONZO:David--just for my own clarification--my impression was that the formidable-looking "tusks" of the adult males are mostly for show, but that the jaws of the larvae can deliver a healthy pinch. Very true. In fact, the larvae can draw blood with a nip. I was referring to adults when I made my comment (they have the ridiculous "tusks," as you call them). It would be silly to have a predator that couldn't use its mandibles. I personally, don't pick up larvae with my fingers. | |
| David | ||
| Serotonin | March 30th, 2007, 1:53 am | |
| Posts: 6 | Can anyone tell me roughly when the adults are prone to emerge, and how long they live...? And how they behave...? I'll be happy to post a photo of that old crinkly female from the jar, as soon as I get the ice out of my camera... :) :) | |
| Taxon | March 30th, 2007, 2:21 am | |
| Mercer Island, WA Posts: 506 | Can anyone tell me roughly when the adults are prone to emerge, and how long they live...? Serotonin- Dobsonflies are spring/summer emergers, only live a few days in winged form, are generally only active after dark, might be found hiding on the underside (in the shade) of a big leaf during daylight hours, and are somewhat clumsy in flight. | |
| Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com | ||
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