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> > Just what is the definition of “FLY” fishing?, Page 2

OldredbarnOctober 26th, 2011, 3:42 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
I think the key in these things is just not to worry about what others think... Fly fishing is whatever you want it to be. While I much prefer to use fairly traditional methods,I've got no problem throwing egg patterns, marabou jigs, and even occasionally a woolly bugger with a spinner attached to it on my fly rod. I call it all fly fishing, because that's what I think it is, and that's pretty much the end of that.


Motrout,

I actually had a good laugh after I read your post here. I mean this is a good way, honest! My little sister was born in 1970 and I was already 16. The rest of her siblings and I used to tease her as the princess was growing up because she had a pet phrase we had to hear over and over again from her, "You can't tell me what to do!"

I almost imagined her standing in front of me reciting your last sentence up there with her hands on her hips followed by her sticking out her tongue and giving me one of those rasberries where you make you tongue and lips make that pouty little sound..."So there!, Take that!" kind of thing.

You are absolutely correct when you say that fly fishing is whatever you wish it to be, but...If you and I sat down together to play a game of Scrabble, or Monopoly, or Chess and you decided we needed to change the rules because the games were too difficult or I was always winning, we would no longer really be playing Scrabble, Monopoly, or Chess...But some variation of those games...The new made-up versions.

I know that Mr. Salmo Trutta can be a very uncooperative fella and it is no doubt easier to stand in the middle of the river and tap him on the nose with weighted streamers (hence their popularity), but a streamer is an imitation of a bait-fish or maybe a leech...But of a "fly"...No. IMHO

Now. Since I wrote what I did the other day I started to consider some "gray areas"...We are so in to being PC these days and including everyone under our tent, that we may be accussed of lowering the bar, or de-valuing, or generalizing our sport in to meaninglessness...Or others would say only that old-school Spence is basically a snob when you peal away his layers...How dare that so-and-so try and tell us what's up here.

Fair enough. I was and I'm not telling anyone now what to do and I said that up above somewhere...I also said what was basically my opinion...That it may just boil down to semantics...You say Toe-may-toe and I say Toe-ma-toe kind of thing.

I streamer fish (mostly to smallies these days), but I call it "streamer fishing"...There's not much to it really other than knowning when to duck, :( and maybe a few good mends to get the bugger down to fish level..."Fly" fishing is a whole other ball game and I have watched over the years some very qualified anglers moved to just this side of smashing their rods with the frustration of it, but that's part of the game and to me what makes fly-fishing such a challenge and fun...But that's just me.

Not always, but us dry-fly-guys, would probably admit that our bigger fish of the season were taken between Brown Drakes showing up and the Hex. Probably toward evening or after-dark and that the bigger boys don't show themselves openly or feed on the surface as much as we would like during the daylight hours. There are times when the river-gods do seem to be shining down on us a bit...That's just the way it goes...

If you have read many of my posts you will remember that I carry everything in my vest and that includes drys, nymphs, and streamers and even "fancy-flys" those attractors that fall in to that gray area as well...Oh and a kitchen sink!

Spence

I forgot my "gray-area"...Hellgramites...The Murray's Hellgramite sure looks darn close to a wooley bugger I guess...Hmmm? :)

On another thread Tony & Kurt speak of their fly-fishing mentors...If you think Matt & I are grumps (our bark is louder than our bite...Really!) you should of met my mentor...During our "Tweed" dry-fly days I couldn't count a fish as caught if it hit the fly after it started to drag...Damn! :)

He was tough, but I got past it and I'm the better for it...He will begrudgingly admit these days, though its like pulling teeth, that, "Spence. He can cover a fish pretty well and his comparaduns are passable." Beyond that, I'm dreaming and won't be holding my breath! :)

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
OldredbarnOctober 26th, 2011, 3:46 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
This is usually the way we see them written up. Of course anglers named Skues, Sawyer, Hewitt & Schwiebert from the nymph proponents would probably disagree. Streamer guys like Welch, Oatman, McLeod and Rosborough might have had something to say on the topic as well. There's an awful lot of salmon/square-tail anglers in Maine and steelheaders on the West Coast (with a whole lot of nymphers in between) that think they are fly fishing.


Just tell them they are delusional Kurt...:)

You must of been writing your post the same time I was writing mine...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanOctober 26th, 2011, 3:54 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Ha! Yep...:):) This usually happens when Gonzo or Taxon beat me to the punch on some bug id.!

Just tell them they are delusional Kurt...:)


Are you insinuating that I have mystical powers or just that I've got one foot in already...:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnOctober 26th, 2011, 5:51 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Are you insinuating that I have mystical powers or just that I've got one foot in already...:)


No...Just that you be the man!

We all know that these sorts of questions really are of an open ended nature, and never settled, right?!

I am actually rather fond of the new popularity of streamers...A steamer guy doesn't dally in my fishing hole as long as a damn dry-fly-guy would...:)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
EntomanOctober 26th, 2011, 6:54 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Hey Spence,

We all know that these sorts of questions really are of an open ended nature, and never settled, right?!


Yes, indeedee.

A steamer guy doesn't dally in my fishing hole as long as a damn dry-fly-guy would...:)


Ha! The way some of them cast they might as well be throwing cone-head wooly buggers... and you're right, they don't leave! Those dang dry fly guys:)

BTW -
On another thread Tony & Kurt speak of their fly-fishing mentors.


Now here's a sign we need to move on. This one has gone on way too long when we start to mention posts it contains as belonging to another thread.:):) LOL

Regards,

Kurt


"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
WbranchOctober 26th, 2011, 7:44 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2723
Threads that go on this long ad nausem are the primary reason I seldom post on any forums any longer because there are always some guys who just love to hear themselves talk.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
MotroutOctober 26th, 2011, 8:23 pm
Posts: 319
Oldredbarn,

I think it's only fair to say that a fair bit of this may just be regional too. Up in Michigan, well, things are a little different from down here. Namely, fly fisherman make up a pretty good percentage of trout fisherman, it's the birthplace of TU, real fly fishing, trout country. Down here, if I had to take a wild guess, I'd say that maybe 10-15% of trout fisherman fly fish at all, so, well, you tend to consider anyone who isn't actually using a spinning rod to be a fly fisher...Heck, I don't think honest to goodness dry fly purists even exist in the Ozarks, or if they do they're sure an endangered species. Which is a bummer really.

But when you're fishing streams, like I do, that don't generally have very good hatches except during the spring and fall, and where it is often difficult to find fish looking up, then you either adapt or you're sort of left out in the cold.You just have to dry fly fish when you can, and enjoy the heck out of it, but switch to nymphs and streamers the rest of the time, and enjoy that too. At least that's how I see it, but there are certainly other ways of looking at this.

Well, there is my pointless, rambling post for the week:)

"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
Jmd123October 26th, 2011, 10:53 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2530
I'm with Matt on this one. It's to the point where I can't even read a Spence post anymore - sorry pal, but sometimes you just go on WAAAAAAY too long...

So here's my humble opinion about what constitutes fly fishing:

Using a fly rod (as conventionally defined) with a fly reel (as conventionally defined, although here perhaps Tenkara counts too with no reel at all) and a fly line (floating, sinking, sink tip, whatever but NOT just mono) to fly cast (that means back and forth, false casting, no chuck-n-duck SHIT, get out your damned spinning or casting rod if you're going to do that!) flies (which are various materials, natural and synthetic, tied on a hook with thread, not just entirely pre-made and glued or impaled, can be weighted or not) which imitate various forms of aquatic life, generally insects but sometimes also other invertebrates, forage fish, and even occasionally amphibians, or sometimes just set off a fish's curiosity or agressiveness.

Anything else, in my humble opinion, is NOT fly fishing, but rather spinning, casting, trolling, or bait fishing. Anyone on here or anywhere else want to argue with that, well I don't give a flying f*ck.

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
EntomanOctober 26th, 2011, 11:29 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
What is it with the personal attacks? You can sure tell a season is winding down...
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
TaxonOctober 27th, 2011, 2:20 am
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1337
One of the things I like about this forum is the general tolerance for a wide variety of interests and communication styles. Does Spence like to tell his stories? Oh, yes. Is he basically goodhearted? I sure think so. Are his posts frequently quite entertaining? Absolutely.

Guess the point I am trying to make here is, each of our keyboards has a page down key, which is an extremely useful key, should one of our personal thresholds become exceeded.

Tight lines guys,
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
MotroutOctober 27th, 2011, 10:00 am
Posts: 319
What is it with the personal attacks? You can sure tell a season is winding down...

Maybe I said something that could be taken as a personal attack? I don't know what though and it certainly wasn't my intent. In any case I have somewhat of a tendency to put my foot in my mouth without knowing it, so sometimes it's best just to apologize on general principle.
"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
Jmd123October 27th, 2011, 6:59 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2530
Roger, good points all. MO, you're safe, Kurt was more worried about my lamenting Spence's novellas, which even the Spencemeister himself admits become rather, no very, no wait, EXTREMELY lengthy at times... ;oD

What we all call fly fishing is our own personal preference. Right now I am in the fourth year of my own personal "fly fishing purism", sort of a personal challenge to see if I can catch everything I want to on proper fly tackle without resorting to pulling out the spinning stuff. It's tough right now, what with salmon and steelhead filling up the Au Sable River (and others) and most folks having success by lobbing considerable weight and spawn sacs or single eggs on noodle rods with spinning reels, and I just really want to do it on my 8-weight and no freaking chuck-n-duck with slinky weights like Spence was talked into doing (with his own personal reservations, as a dry-fly guy at heart like me). I'm just missing those summer hatches and throwing my hoppers...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
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