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> > Just what is a fly fishing "Expert"?, Page 3

PaulRobertsOctober 11th, 2011, 2:04 pm
Colorado

Posts: 1776
Holy Moly Kurt. Phew.....
SayfuOctober 12th, 2011, 3:56 pm
Posts: 560
Sayfu is at a point in his life where he can easily start with a false assumption, and pursue it, and embellish it to ad nausium. Then I am an expert at the cover up.
WbranchOctober 12th, 2011, 7:25 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2630
Back in the early 1980's I was on the Salmon River - this was just after the ban on snagging with the lead weighted trebles went into effect. However lots of guys just couldn't get over the desire to snag fish so they would put on a big hook with a piece of sponge and 4 - 6 big goonie split shot as big as small grapes and whip it out and reel, and snatch. Well one guy next to me got snagged and kept pulling and pulling. I told him "you better be careful, if that thing ever pulls loose it will come flying straight out and hit you in the face". Well about ten seconds later there was a yelp as the hook and one ounce of split shot came free, hit him square in his right eye, broke the eyeglasses and blood immedaitely started to flow out. He looked at me and with all seriousness says "do you think I should go to a doctor?" Ya think you dumbass!!?? I told him it looked pretty ugly and he'd better convince his friends to quit fishing and take him to some urgent care facility.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Jmd123October 12th, 2011, 7:38 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2470
Matt, you should have told him to just keep on fishing, er, I mean SNAGGING..."Naw, it's not THAT bad, the blood will stop spurting out of your eye in a few minutes, and hey, ya still got ONE good eye left!"

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
SayfuOctober 13th, 2011, 9:11 am
Posts: 560I was steelheading with a fishing buddy out of my jetboat on the Snoqualmie River out of Seattle in the foothills of the Cascade Mts. years ago. We ran up anchoring next to a huge bolder on the bank. I made a cast with my drift rod with at least an ounce of pencil lead attached, and got a backlash. When I removed the backlash I looked back at what had caused the backlash, and an old German fellow was lying on the big rock, his hat laying off to the side, and he was out cold. A quiet man, he had come through the woodlot, and out onto the bolder to find out how we were doing. I cold cocked him with my lead up side his head. The old man did recover.
Jmd123October 13th, 2011, 1:06 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2470
Never get too close to a steelheader!

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
WbranchOctober 13th, 2011, 6:07 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2630
JDM,

As it turned out his buddies didn't want to take him to the doctor right away but other fisher folk started to scold the buddies so they relented and took him to get fixed up.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Jmd123October 13th, 2011, 7:54 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2470
How dare he cut into their "fishing" time with that bleeding eyeball of his! The selfish bastard...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
CVKNovember 14th, 2012, 9:21 am
South Africa

Posts: 1
I have just read this thread, and like what Adirman has defined as an "expert" right at the start. I am a real novice, with a genuine desire to become quite good at flyfishing. Plus its the first thread that I have read on this forum.

The question I have, is - where can I best learn about the areas as Adirman described?

It seems that apart from spending time with people who know what they're doing, there is little additional "guidance". Sure there are videos about casting and how to tie different knots, but where best can I learn about different fly types and reading dams and streams to find a great catch? Any advice or guidance will be appreciated.
CVK
Kschaefer3November 14th, 2012, 1:47 pm
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
Very interesting thread.

To me, much of the criteria Adirman uses seems ancillary to actually fishing. In my incredibly far from expert opinion, an expert fly angler consistently catches a lot of fish and big fish. The criteria Adirman lays out would likely aid in catching quantity and quality of fish, but they are certainly not essential (or at least not all of them are essential).

Catching a lot and a lot of big fish is a very relative statement. Catching a lot of musky could mean one to hand for every 50 hrs on the water. And a big brook trout could be 12". Because of this, I think being an expert is very relative. As well, an expert trout angler who fishes mostly Driftless Area spring creeks would not necessarily be an expert fishing large freestone rivers out west.

Maybe an expert fly angler is one who possess relative expertise in the most types of fish and the broadest range of waters? Or maybe there are two types of fly fishing experts: those who have the highest relative expertise in their species/water type, and those who possess some relative expertise across the most types of fish and/or waters?

The idea of an inch wide and a mile deep or a mile wide and an inch deep seems applicable.
AdirmanNovember 14th, 2012, 5:21 pm
Monticello, NY

Posts: 478
Which ones would not be essential in your opinion if I may humbly inquire? BTW, your analysis as to knowledge of home waters makes sense to me but a versatile flyfisherman with decent experience on all watertypes and in all situations imaginable should still have some success regardless of water type/situation yes? Catching fish of course, would be anyones obvious criteria but part of that "catching success" would be linked to my aforementioned criteria (in many cases) I would argue. In other words, you dont just catch fish, you catch fish for a reason and especially if you catch 'em consistently!
Kschaefer3November 15th, 2012, 10:12 am
St. Paul, MN

Posts: 376
Which ones would not be essential in your opinion if I may humbly inquire?


You certainly may. It wouldn't be much fun if I said no :)

As I think more about this though, and read some definitions for "expert", I believe I stand corrected. The flaw in my logic is that an expert needs to fish at all. Or that an expert would be judged by results. There may be someone who has never set foot in the water, but has such an extensive knowledge of the sport, and all things surrounding the sport, that they would be considered an expert. It seems to me that Troutnut's designation of "master" then is almost an applied expert. Because let's be honest, we've all studied an area of fishing to no end. Then one day you go to apply it on the water, and...the results didn't reflect your knowledge or the pursuit thereof. A master has not only learned as much as possible, but also how to use that knowledge to produce and end result, consistently catching quantity and quality of fish.


An expert can still have a tremendous amount left to learn -- in fact, an expert may be more acutely aware of that than anyone else.


Yes. This is a great point. Expertise comes with a lifelong pursuit of knowledge.

I would argue. In other words, you dont just catch fish, you catch fish for a reason and especially if you catch 'em consistently!


Can one of our resident experts share that reason? I read and research to no end, but the fish fail to see my expertise! Don't be bashful, I know there are lots of experts on here. I know he disagrees, but I fished with Pryal74, and he is definitely an expert!
AdirmanNovember 15th, 2012, 4:38 pm
Monticello, NY

Posts: 478
I am definitely with ya there!!
KonchuJanuary 16th, 2013, 9:10 pm
Site Editor
Indiana

Posts: 498
"An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a narrow field." -- Niels Bohr (physicist)

Saw the quote above as the thought for the day in my local newspaper, and I thought of this thread.
OldredbarnJanuary 16th, 2013, 11:51 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Love it Luke!

How about this one along the same lines from Ambrose Bierce, "Experience: The wisdom that enables us to recognize as an undesirable old acquaintance the folly that we have already embraced."

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Jmd123January 17th, 2013, 8:14 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2470
"A farmer is a person who is outstanding in his field."

Anonymous, but brought to you by

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
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