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> > Success on hoppers but bust on a dual mayfly/caddisfly hatch??
| Jmd123 | September 10th, 2011, 1:07 pm | |
 Posts: 2611 | Here's a wacky one for ya, my fellow troutnuts. I hit the Pine River yesterday and the day before with two different approaches. I should describe this reach before going further - small waters, not more than 10-15 feet wide at the most, with holes not going more than waist deep and plenty of shallow stretches you just have to walk on through, flowing through deciduous forest and old beaver meadows. The bottom is a nice mixture of gravel bars, sandy runs, clay-bottomed pools, occasional rocks, silty areas, and some weed beds, with both natural and artificial log structures (the latter constructed by the Forest Service) for cover. It's not big-fish water, nor does it hold a lot of fish, but the trout are there and it is closer to home than any other trout waters around here (the Rifle is a good hour's drive, versus 20 minutes or so for the Pine). So Thursday I decided to do a daytime expedition with some freshly tied grasshopper imitations. It was a beautiful, bright sunny day, and the water was gin-clear, in fact I was spooking some fish and watching them go flying past me in a panic. Not all of them though - I caught a nice 8" brookie and a little 7" brown that popped up out of quiet water, and some time later I saw a riser that turned out to be a brown about 8 1/2" long (like I said, not big fish water). I lost at least one more trout, possibly two although the second could have been a creek chub, as I did catch some later, including one as big as any of the trout I caught (and he actually fought hard enough I first though he was a trout). Considering the conditions - bright sunshine and low, clear water, and a small (in both ways) trout population, I felt like I had done pretty well. However, as I went back downstream towards my car as the sun was setting, swarms of caddisflies began to appear skimming just over the water surface, whitish ones about a size 12 or 14, and then some whitish mayflies appeared, looking for all the world like Light Cahills (Stenonema canadense, which normally hatch in July so who knows what they were - Ephoron leukon?). There were probably ten caddis to each mayfly but there were plenty of both! Moving downstream, kicking up silt in a narrow channel and also chasing a great big blue heron down the river, I figured it was pointless to try throwing any more flies, but I figured an evening expedition was in order because I felt like this was more flies than I had seen on the water all summer! (I had hit a small mayfly hatch - couldn't tell you what they were because it was getting dark - early in the summer and caught a few small browns and rainbows on it, just using a #12 Adams.) So last night I hit the water just as the sun was going down, perfect timing for the hatches, which were again going strong (there was even a second, smaller mayfly hatching amongst them). Guess what? NO FISH were feeding! And none would rise to a #12 white Elkhair caddis or White Wulff, either, other than a few tiny chubs which tried to pull them under. WTF??? It seems counterintuitive that I would have more success during bright daylight hours, when very few insects were on the water (I did see a few random mayflies, which surprised me), than I would during fading light with not one but two good hatches going on at the same time. ????? Did I go back too soon, were the fish still freaked out from me & the heron the day before? I would have thought 24 hours would have been enough time for them to calm back down, but was I wrong? Any guesses, guys? All I can say is, trout sure are fickle creatures... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Falsifly | September 10th, 2011, 2:43 pm | |
 Posts: 661 | Guess what? NO FISH were feeding! And none would rise to a #12 white Elkhair caddis or White Wulff, either If your assumption of, “NO FISH were feeding” was based on the lack of visible rise forms and was further reinforced by, “And none would rise to a #12 white Elkhair caddis or White Wulff, either”, as I presume, then I suggest you may have fallen victim to you’re observation as being the explanation to, “NO FISH were feeding”. It has been my experience that lack of rises during a hatch is not indicative of lack of feeding below the surface. And depending on light conditions and water surface turbulence this subsurface feeding can be further obscured. Did you try an emerging pattern allowing it to dead drift and develop into a swing at the tail end of the drift? Did I go back too soon, were the fish still freaked out from me & the heron the day before? I would have thought 24 hours would have been enough time for them to calm back down, but was I wrong? Any guesses, guys? I seriously doubt that your presence or any presence of a natural predator, which the fish are prone to 24/7, would result in a 24 hour hunger strike. | |
| Falsifly When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that." | ||
| Jmd123 | September 10th, 2011, 8:37 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Falsifly, this being a small stream it is damned hard to get above these fish without kicking silt into their faces, so swinging a wet or emerger pattern on them from above is pretty difficult. Were it a larger stream I would have more room to maneuver into position and send the silt down the opposite side of the channel, but in a situation such as this I always fish upstream. Also, flies did not seem to be emerging from the water but rather returning to it for egg laying, as many of them were bouncing off the water and I did not see any of them riding on the surface, as one would expect if they were emerging. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but given what I saw I do have my doubts, beisdes the difficulty of swinging to them from above. ????? Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| GONZO | September 10th, 2011, 9:17 pm | |
Site Editor "Bear Swamp," PAPosts: 1681 | Wets and nymphs can be fished upstream. Why are you surprised that no trout took your dries when none were rising? | |
| Entoman | September 10th, 2011, 10:35 pm | |
 Posts: 2604 | Hi Jonathon - Is the stream too overgrown to find spots to fish from the bank? On water that small, I'd try to stay out of it if I could. The little tribs I fish occasionally are so low and clear this time of year, I try to even keep my fly line off the water if I can. Especially the still pools. Kurt | |
| "It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman | ||
| Jmd123 | September 11th, 2011, 2:03 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Guys, if the same hatches are occuring on the Rifle, and I know at least the caddis will be from past experience, I can try swinging some wets & emergers there, as the channel is considerably wider and it's much easier to fish downstream. I'll need to tie some since I don't have any, so a few recommendations would be welcome. On the Pine, dang it's gonna be tough to do that. This area is in old beaver meadows so there's lots of high grass and brush on the banks, Kurt, so bank fishing would be quite the challenge. I could try leapfroging by hiking the bank above the holes and dropping in above them, but I still feel a lot more comfortable fishing to them from below. And I can try fishing wets and emergers upstream, but it's gonna be danged hard to figure out if I'm getting a hit or not in low-light conditions. Perhaps I'm just frustrated because I love dry fly fishing so much. And concerning fishing a dry when no fish are seen feeding, I've had them come up and hit a dry in these circumstances, perhaps because the fish think they finally have one in a vulnerable position, given that the vast majority of flies are in the air but some are bouncing off the water surface. "Hey, there's one stuck in the surface film, he's mine!" Obviously, more on-the-water research is necessary... Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
| Oldredbarn | September 12th, 2011, 12:10 pm | |
 Posts: 2608 | Jonathon, The poor lot that has fished with me over the years have heard me say often, "If I were a betting man, I'd say that's a blah, blah, blah..." They also know I'm not really a gambler and long distant ID's are risky. Yes I put my life on the line on the highway between Detroit & Grayling & have been known to wade in the spring when the river is out of its banks when I should of remained back at the Lodge with the boys sipping my Molsons...Oh! There also is the after dark fishing which all of you are sworn to keep to yourselves because my sweetheart isn't fond of it. I was directly west of you this past weekend for the annual river cleanup put on by the Angler's of the Au Sable and I got to do a little fishing. And, if I were a betting man I'd offer that the light caddis you saw was the "White Miller"...Nectopsyche sp. I might also offer that you should pretty much ignore it. When I make my off-handed guesses on the river about what fly I'm seeing, off in the distance, it is more like an educated guess since I've seen the same over the river this time of year for years. I am convinced they are there to simply distract the shit out of us. I have seen them fairly thick and they do that non-stop figure eight pattern over and over again just above the water and seem to do nothing else. All friggin night! I have tried to wait them out, thinking to myself they can't keep this up forever, but...They are mesmerizing, but until trout sprout wings...They seem to be a big waste of time. I fished the Manistee Saturday night with an old friend who is the night fisherman nonpareil. We had a wonderful moon and stayed late. My friend hated that the moon was there, but I was happy I could actually see a bit since the Manistee is all sand, heavy water, and holes that with one wrong step could float your hat. My friend is 70 years old! A retired biology teacher from Ohio and a mascot of sorts up around Gates'. We saw your "Cahills". Maybe a half-a-dozen during the course of the evening and they were emerging. I think they are the last stragglers and are petering out...I also think, under the new nomenclature, he/she/it may be a Stenacron (interpunctatum?) but it could be some other last minute Charlie. :) Part of our clean up is a program, through Kirkland Community College, we joking call "Bugs-R-Us". Every year a crew, including my above mentioned fishing pal, return to marked sites and do a stream survey and preserve all the critters they collect. He was telling me that they had some Iso's show up with really dark wing pads in their samplings...Now I didn't actually see any but did ok during the day tossing a weighted Dette's Iso nymph on the Au Sable and for part of the evening on the Manistee I caught some fish on a Iso parachute pattern. When it comes to actual bugs I saw this past weekend, one could only charaterize it as Tony (Gutcutter) time. :) I sat Sunday morning at "The Castle" on the South Branch and watched, through my binoculars, the tail end of the Tricos getting sucked in just upstream as they slid across a nice slick area across from a beaver dwelling. That was my clean-up beat the day before (Daisey Bend to the Castle) and we spooked some nice fish in there picking up canoe trash that was clinging to their structure were they were hiding. The little beloved Iswaeon anoka (my old P anoka) follwed on the heels of the Tricos. I watched on another spot on the river as the little guys hit those. We had a fair hatch going Sunday at 1-2pm when I quit and headed back towards home...I saw a few of P adoptiva's late season cousin maybe (debillis?) and some of the tiny Baetis (maybe pygmalus) now Acerpenna pygmaea... Missing in action...The little larger Baetis heimalis, but Rusty use to tell me they show up in early October or the end of this month...No flying Iso's and really not much of anything in any numbers anywhere larger than a size 20 if you were lucky. So what worked, you might ask? Other than the above mentioned Iso patterns I had some luck in Jesse's neighborhood. My friend that I fished with is a wonderful fly tyer and is known for night fishing, streamers, and for chasing bass...He has appeared many times on Gates' "Hog Chart". More times than I like to remember...:) What he stuck in my hand, and who am I to argue, was a rubber ant...Jess would of loved it...It was a size 16 (maybe a 14?) and consisted of a body of green tying thread, a tiny green rubber body pulled over the top and some green rooster hackle...and a small poly wing angled out over the back. Floats like a cork. I did ok with it actually...But as it started to get dark I switched to a parachute version of the hatching "Cahills" which went nowhere and the Iso in to the evening...My friend switched to streamers and had some nice hits but no hook ups...We left the Manistee at 10:30 and went looking for some Oktoberfest on tap at a local watering hole. I had some fun with it again on Sunday bumping it right up against structure... I was a bit dissapointed to hear you were not doing well on the Pine. I have heard through the grapevine that it is somewhat of a brookie jewel on your side of the state. I use to fish a couple really small, over grown, streams over by my grandparents near Cadillac...It's not easy but a lot of fun. Fishing upstream is a must if you are wading and you should move like a Great Blue Heron, because the fish know you are there. Here's a weird thought speaking of Herons...The trout has a pea-sized brain. The Heron sneaks up from downstream behind the fish. He moves painfully slow. He hovers over the water with his beak just above where the fish was and does not move, period...The fish (IMHO) calms down and actually forgets that the bird is still there and pow!...One less brook trout. The fish has a spot where it feels comfortable and will head back to it as soon as it fells safe again...Mistake! So...Only move when you have to and when you cast make it as few false casts as possible...Say one only...Or perfect some small stream casts and be patient... Wow! What a ramble...Sorry! Spence | |
| "Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively "Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood | ||
| Jmd123 | September 12th, 2011, 1:50 pm | |
Posts: 2611 | Another looooong one, Spence, but good and thoughtful. I actually have had success on the Pine, just not on that night. The day before with hoppers was a ball, and I felt like I did pretty good considering the bright daylight and crystal-clear, shallow waters I was fishing, besides it just being a beautiful place to fish. And there are some nice brookies in there, in fact the first one I caught there (in this reach, that is) this spring was 11" long (caught a 6-incher earlier in another reach) and there's some very pretty little browns and rainbows in there too. So it can be productive water if you're willing to put in the effort, and so far I have only fished two locations on the South Branch, where there's at least one more access point I haven't hit yet, not to mention at least three on the West Branch and one on the East Branch. If I don't get to them before the end of the month (close of regular trout season here in MI for you non-Michiganders), they will be next season's adventures. Plus, there's some tributary creeks that have nice pools near culverts that I can reach by mountain bike, and at one of them I saw a nice bunch of brookies when I snuck up on the pool and peered slowly over the edge of the culvert... I've seen those White Millers on the Rifle before as well, and they do just skim over the water and not many if any fish pay attention to them. Guess I should just put on the good ol' size 10 Royal Wulff, or maybe one of the new crickets or katydids that I recently tied up. And I agree with you, fishing upstream is the only way to go on small streams like the Pine - there is tall grass and lots of brush on the banks, and coming down from above kicks up an awful lot of silt that I don't think those fish experience unless there's a black bear lumbring down the stream (a distinct possibility out there, and I'm sure if one does he sends the fish scurrying for cover because they like to eat fish too!)... Last night I decided to go back to [REDACTED] Pond for some kayak fishing. There had been a massive flying ant fall, several species in fact of at least two different sizes and two different colors (black and cinnamon). Fish were rising all over the pond! Having no ants in my box (I've been meaning to tie some up - more incentive now!), I tied on the nearest thing I had, an Elkhair Caddis in size 16 with a black body & hackle and gray wing. I guess it was close enough for the brookies because I caught fish of 12", 10", 9" and two smaller ones! Not only that, but two friends showed up in a canoe, in fact the folks fron Nordic Sports who had told me about the place...They were actually pissed that someone else was already there, and I was slightly upset that I didn't have the place completely to myself, until we all found out who the others were! They said that they and a few other friends have been getting some in the 13-14" range out there, so the new population is growing nicely, and they said another friend came in and cleaned out some big perch (I had seen them while snorkeling) so there will be less competition for the brookies to get big and fat in the coming years. The feeder creek to the pond (which was dammed up to make the pond in the first place) is spring-fed and has some very nice gravel stretches, and there's lots of little guys (saw fry earlier in the year in the creek and saw them down to 2" while snorkeling) so they're breeding well in there too. Come up here and I'll show you where it is, if it's after Sept. 30th we can just go for a hike and perhaps watch the brookies spawning on the gravel! Jonathon | |
| No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere... | ||
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