Troutnut.com Fly Fishing for Trout Home
User Password
or register.
Scientific name search:

> > A Cinygmula nymph without protruding mouthparts?

The Specimen

Cinygmula (Dark Red Quills) Mayfly NymphCinygmula (Dark Red Quills) Mayfly Nymph View 7 PicturesThis very strange nymph appears to be undoubtedly Cinygmula, yet it lacks the telltale protruding mouthparts that usually make that genus so easy to identify.
Collected July 17, 2011 from the Gulkana River in Alaska
Added to Troutnut.com by on July 20, 2011

The Discussion

TroutnutJuly 20th, 2011, 5:03 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2558
I've never heard of such a thing, yet here it is, unless I'm badly mistaken. The gills and all the other features scream Cinygmula, as does the fact that it was collected with hundreds of other Cinygmula nymphs representing (I think) at least two species.

Anyone know what's going on with the mouth?
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
KonchuJuly 20th, 2011, 8:27 am
Site Editor
Indiana

Posts: 498
sometimes things look a little different before they molt to the subimago (as yours appears prepared to do), but i'm not sure that's the case here. again, maybe I can take a look at the real thing. i'll spend more time with the pictures later; I'll think about it today and possibly check some resources if I get a chance. the id here should be straight forward.
TroutnutJuly 20th, 2011, 1:15 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2558
Interesting. I'll be sending this one to you labeled "Odd Cinygmula?"
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
EntomanJuly 20th, 2011, 1:34 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Hi Luke & Jason,

Well, I don't know what to think. At first glance it looks a lot like the photos we tentatively placed in ramaleyi. The abdomen, gills and tails are clearly Cinygmula. The rest? Not so sure. The ventral shots show that the maxillary palpi are shorter, not held at a weird angle or something. In addition to the palpi "not looking the way they are supposed to", ditto the very thin femora. Also, the eyes lack the concavity or flat surface giving the eyes a more angled look to them as normally associated with this genera. This is definitely something different from what we are used to looking at with this genus.

regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
KonchuJuly 20th, 2011, 7:27 pm
Site Editor
Indiana

Posts: 498
Just for kicks, Jason, try running it through the recent key to Heptageniidae genera.
EntomanJuly 20th, 2011, 11:21 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Hi Luke -

I tried the link and couldn't gain access to the full key. Is the presence of fibrilliform portions of the gilling no longer required to be Heptagenia?

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GONZOJuly 21st, 2011, 12:48 am
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Kurt,

Dialog box 29b, the one that concludes with a determination of Heptagenia, says "gills 7 with fibrils." That doesn't seem any different.
KonchuJuly 21st, 2011, 7:50 am
Site Editor
Indiana

Posts: 498
I tried the link and couldn't gain access to the full key.


Try clicking on "larva key" at the bottom of the page that comes up from my link.
Jmw975July 25th, 2011, 8:33 am
Guelph, Ontario

Posts: 20
Hi Jason,
It definitely looks like Cinygmula to me as well, but it is weird that the maxillae seem shorter. Cinygmula is poorly known in the nymphal stage, and it is possible this represents an undescribed one with shorter maxillae. In some of the preserved material I've seen the mouthparts don't always protrude, but I've never been confident in putting a species name on them (or pretty much any Cingymula nymph, for that matter). Also, like Konchu says, when things are getting ready to moult, they get all crazy (I think it happens just to confuse us!). It might be worthwhile getting DNA from this strange critter!

Jeff
EntomanJuly 28th, 2011, 8:29 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
sometimes things look a little different before they molt to the subimago...


Ah! You're right Luke. Thanks for reminding that head capsules of nymphs can change dramatically when close to emergence. Ephemerellid males in particular start to look like something from outerspace. This explains the difference in eye shape. Perhaps expansion of the head capsule or a withering of the mouthparts interiorly is behind the lack of protruding palpi?

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
EntomanMarch 28th, 2013, 6:38 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Not that I'm aware of.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Quick Reply

You have to be logged in to post on the forum. It's this easy:
Username:          Email:

Password:    Confirm Password:

I am at least 13 years old and agree to the rules.

Related Discussions

TitleRepliesLast Reply
Re: Yakima River Light Cahill
In the Identify This! Board by Drywaters
6Dec 20, 2016
by Troutnut
I. hansoni
In Isogenoides hansoni Stonefly Nymph by GONZO
0
Re: Grayling & bugs on the upper Gulkana River
In Site Updates by Troutnut
8Jul 27, 2011
by Entoman
Acroneuria specimen moved from genus to species level
In Acroneuria carolinensis Stonefly Nymph by Entoman
0
Re: Plecoptera ID
In the Identify This! Board by DOS
4Apr 8, 2010
by Jmd123
Re: Nixe species (kennedyi?)
(2 more)

In the Identify This! Board by Millcreek
4Sep 27, 2014
by Millcreek
Re: Some pics from a NC stream
In the Identify This! Board by RyanBednar
3Apr 26, 2010
by RyanBednar
Re: Fly Fishing The Rogue River
In Fishing Reports by RogueBum
4Jun 16, 2014
by Powellammon
Re: closing the gender gap in flyfishing
In General Discussion by Konchu
5Mar 5, 2018
by Smallflyguy
Re: Nymph ID please help
(6 more)

In the Identify This! Board by Cherylkorca
5Feb 20, 2020
by Leskorcala
Most Recent Posts
Re: A death in the family...RIP Leo the Lionheart
In the Photography Board by Jmd123 (LearingtoFl replied)
Re: Anual San Pedro Parks Wilderness backpacking trip
In Fishing Reports by Red_green_h (Martinlf replied)
Re: Happy Memorial Day to my fellow Troutnuts with wildflowers from my front yard
In the Photography Board by Jmd123 (Martinlf replied)
Re: Clark's Marsh, flooded
In the Photography Board by Jmd123 (Martinlf replied)
Re: One of my hydropower dam projects just blew out!
In General Discussion by Jmd123
Re: My fly tying buddy
In the Photography Board by Wbranch (Martinlf replied)
Re: Metro Detroit Trout
In Fishing Reports by Summer_doug (Brian314 replied)
Re: Caddis query
In Fly Tying by Roguerat (Wbranch replied)
Re: Looking for a silk fly line
In Gear Talk by Johnsteve (Wbranch replied)
Re: FREEDOM!
In General Discussion by Roguerat (Jmd123 replied)