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> > Cosmo Ads?

Shawnny3January 19th, 2011, 5:10 pm
Moderator
Pleasant Gap, PA

Posts: 1197
Are flyfishermen in general a new target audience for them, or are these just "smart" ads aimed at those of us who are a little more dandy than the rest?

-Shawn
Jewelry-Quality Artistic Salmon Flies, by Shawn Davis
www.davisflydesigns.com
CaseyPJanuary 20th, 2011, 7:26 pm
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
shawnny, clean out your cookies! or send me the link...;-)
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
OldredbarnJanuary 21st, 2011, 6:50 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Yeah Shawn...Not all of us are up on Cosmo like you are...:)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TroutnutJanuary 21st, 2011, 6:16 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2566
Are Cosmo ads showing on here? I haven't seen them (I don't see most ads when I'm signed in as administrator). Anyway the ads are all auto targeted by Google, and they keep that algorithm as a closely guarded secret. When I look at the page without being signed in, I see Orvis ads. Maybe Google knows something about Shawn that the rest of us don't...
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
Jmd123January 21st, 2011, 6:23 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
Not exactly my type of reading material...but, let's not forget, there are those stockbroker types or executives from NYC or wherever who's sole flyfishing experiences are two weeks a year at some fancy five-star Orvis-endorsed lodge with eiderdown comforters on the beds and a certified gourmet chef in the kitchen and guides who do everything but actually cast the rod and fight the fish for their clients, and who's standard set of flyfishing gear runs around $5,000 at the low end...I'm sure the Cosmo ads appeal to that type of person...also known in my book as "pussies" who wouldn't know what to do if they had to do ANYTHING on their own in the world of flyfishing.

Yes, Shawn, they are a little more dandy than the rest of us. And probably catch a whole lot less fish as well.

Jonathon

P.S. Nothing against Orvis, I happen to own quite a bit of their gear and it's good stuff, especially their Sling Pack. However, the type of individual described above likely thinks they can BUY their way to flyfishing success through the use of their Platinum credit card at the local Orvis store (or their catalogue or website) and I doubt that Orvis would ever want to discourage those types of folks from this (erroneous and completely silly) belief.
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
GutcutterJanuary 21st, 2011, 7:12 pm
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
yeah, i know the type.
you're in for some real snobbery when somebody describes a blanket as an "elderdown comfortor"
if you don't fish a fifty dollar rod, you ain't shit
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
TroutnutJanuary 21st, 2011, 10:38 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2566
However, the type of individual described above likely thinks they can BUY their way to flyfishing success through the use of their Platinum credit card at the local Orvis store (or their catalogue or website)


I think these individuals are more common as a fictional foil for entertaining complaints than they are on the actual stream. Off the top of my head I can only think of one that I've ever seen. I must have seen a few others in the Catskills, but I don't remember them specifically. Are they really that noticeable anywhere?
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GutcutterJanuary 22nd, 2011, 5:52 am
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
i agree with you, jason. those types of fishermen are very few and far between in the world that i fish.
but also, jonathon, please realize that not everyone who uses high end equipment is a snob. some people simply will prefer to use what they deem (or what they have been told) is the best. you see it in all types of recreation and in life for that matter.
i have a great friends and fishing buddies who only fish with only high-end rods and reels, but they save their spending money by packing a lunch to work, not eating out and not buying coffee at starbucks etc.
to some of us, the feel of that fine cork, the look of the perfect wraps on the expensive snake guide and the overall "perfectness" of a $700 rod is worth it. and to constantly hear that "my $50 bargain house special rod is better" is simply annoying and not true.
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
Jmd123January 22nd, 2011, 10:51 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
GC, I wasn't putting down folks who can afford the good (and expensive) stuff. I think that you may have misread my point.
But a little story here might be appropriate:

A few years ago I was shopping in the fly fishing section of my local Cabelas. A young fellow and his girlfriend (or wife, don't know which) were looking at the rod racks. I overheard something like, "Geez, why are these rods all so expensive?" (Yes, Cabelas carries the full brand and price range, not just the $50 - $100 stuff that I can afford in my rather unstable career.) He and his partner left the place in obvious disgust, having uttered something like the above words several times. I kick myself now for not having grabbed him and showed him the $50 rods! We lost a potential fishing buddy and another newbie to our sport, who would have perhaps eventually contributed something of his own to our knowledge and probably gained some worthy knowledge of conservation. Our loss, and his too.

If I go on and on about the $50 rod that I love, my point is that you don't NEED to pay 10 or even 20 times as much to catch some really nice fish, or a lot of really nice fish! That doesn't mean there's anything WRONG with you if you like Sage or Winston or Scott or Orvis, but rather that Cabelas will certainly do, and that it's the EXPERIENCE that helps you actually CATCH FISH, not the amount that you spend on your gear. THAT is my point, Sir. Besides, one probably will not appreciate the finer qualities of the more expensive gear unless you HAVE that experience to KNOW that the more expensive rod that you have purchased DOES give you the extra casting distance or accuracy or action or feel that then allows you to be a more successful fisherman. I can only assume from your posts that you are one of these experienced guys who has found the previous sentence to be true.

Also, if you read my post again, you will notice that it isn't just expensive rods that I am talking about, but the whole concept of paying a lot of cash as a SUBSTITUTE for the hard-earned experience and letting everyone else do your work for you. The type of person that I am talking about isn't interested in following around an older guy (like I did for many years) or bugging the folks behind the counter at the fly fishing shop (which I have done lots of too) or reading the books, magazines, or websites like this one to learn for themselves what it takes to be a good fly fisherman. They want a cut-and-dried experience and they want to be pampered. They would be nothing but extremely uncomfortable sleeping on the ground in a tent and would have no clue as to how to fix their catch in a frying pan over a wood campfire, let alone find their way through the woods or down the nasty beat-up back roads to an awesome fishing hole which they wouldn't know how to fish once they got there. It's like the city folk who move up to northern Michigan (like Oscoda where I am moving in three days) and complain that there's NOTHING TO DO up there! As I tell people, there's more, FAR more, for me to do up there than there is here in the city!

The vast majority of fly fisherman, indeed probably 99% or more of the folks on this site (maybe 100% - after all we're all here to learn from each other), are NOT what I am describing here. But yes, they do exist, some of us have met them. I remember seeing a guy more than two decades ago on my natal trout stream, the Maple River in Emmet County, who's gear looked band spanking new (mine probably did as well, I was still pretty new at it). He asked me if I had seen "the other guy" and I replied that I had not. He proceeded to wade upstream and a most hurried, noisy, sloshing manner to go find his buddy, right through waters I was planning on fishing. I thought, hey, great way to put down all of the fish you want to catch there, dude!

My sincerest apologies if I have stepped on anyone's toes here, that's not my intention. But rather, I am just pointing out the "wanna-be's" in our sport, perhaps a better description than the word I used. It reminds me of what I see in most gun magazines these days, all of this "tactical" bullsh*t where everybody wants an AR or AK with a huge-capacity magazine. Why? So they can imagine that they are a Special Forces soldier killing Talaban at the range when they are shooting at a paper bullseye target that can't shoot back? Why not actually have the cajones to go to your local military recruiter and SIGN UP so you can do it for real, like I did when I was 17 right out of high school? Because all they are is a bunch of "wanna-be's"...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Jonathon

P.S. GC, if your fishing buddies scrimp and save on other things so they can afford those expensive sticks, it just shows that they have their priorities in order and know what's really important in life...And, perhaps we could all learn a lesson from them.
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
FalsiflyJanuary 22nd, 2011, 3:22 pm
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 657
Itís been awhile since I've splurged on fly fishing gear, so with Orvis catalogue in hand, and web site on screen, I dove in head first. With the purchase of the limited-edition Flea bamboo fly rod, complemented with the personalized hand scribing, my total exceeded the paltry sum of five grand. Iíll be flying my corporate Gulf Stream to Taupo, New Zealand with a small group of close friends in tow, and spending two weeks at the Tauhara Sunrise Lodge next month. I didnít ask if they have ďeiderdown comfortersĒ but I understand that the accommodations are well suited to my pampered desires. Iíve booked two guides for ten days of fishing for the group, and will probably fly down to the South Island at some point to experience the fishing on the Matakitaki River. I suppose at some point Iíll have to sit back and relax with a dram of twenty five year old single malt Balvenie or Laphroaig (I prefer the peetiness of the Laphroaig) while my guide fishes for me. I havenít given much thought to the total cost of this little getaway but itís taken me thirty years of hard work to get here so Iíll splurge whenever I can. I suppose that when itís all said and done more than a few fifty dollar fly rods could be purchased by those so inclined, as Iím sure that the pockets of many will benefit. Yea, Iím sure some would call me just a ďwanna-beĒ.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
MartinlfJanuary 22nd, 2011, 4:45 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2998
Destination only fly fishers do exist, and in some numbers. Most of us don't see them because they aren't interested in fishing where we do, and I'd wager most of us can't afford to, or prefer not to, fish where they do. (Unless we're infiltrating Beaver water) Probably some of them are good guys, and some are jerks--sort of like the folks we do run into.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
CaseyPJanuary 22nd, 2011, 5:06 pm
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
Are they really that noticeable anywhere?--Troutnut

yes. try the Madison River in August, at any launch point. oh, and a classic morning on Little Pine Creek, PA when i was nicely set up on a nifty bend pool just below a riffle, my all-time favorite shape of fishing hole. as i let the first batch of nymphs flutter down the water into the pool, here came three of Orvis' finest, straight out of the catalog. they popped their heads out of the brush at the deep side of the pool, struggled down to the riffle below, jumped into the water and proceeded to cast to the bank they'd just jumped down from. well, i confess, i sneered, dropped the nymphs in again and pulled in my first healthy stocker and released it. after a while i fooled another one and released it. one more and i decided to go check on my buddy upstream, and left them to it.

wouldn't you know we ran into them a couple hours later in the pull-off. they greeted us cheerily and said their guide of the day before had shown them that place; nice, wasn't it? well, yes, i said. gee, they said, we thought you were a guy. i bit my tongue, left Best Buddy to continue the conversation, and went and got out of my waders. if they hadn't been so disarmingly innocent i really would have been pist.

and to constantly hear that "my $50 bargain house special rod is better" is simply annoying and not true.--Gutcutter

the second summer i fished, i put away my gift Scott 9' 6wt suitable for Montana, bought a bright yellow fiberglass Eagle Claw 6'6" 2-6wt from the Keystone Country Store, set it up for 4wt and learned to fish smaller streams. it was a boatload of fun. in October a Significant Birthday rolled around, so off i went to the real fly shop to try some rods with the old rod for comparison. to shorten a long story, i see a Winston WT 7'6" 3wt leaning on the counter and i ask to try it. you would have thought i'd asked for their firstborn! eventually i was allowed out, and all it took was one cast and suddenly The Light Dawned. in the end i bought it--there was simply no choice. so yes, the Eagle Claw introduced me to a wonderful world, but the Winston is a much better rod!!
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
FalsiflyJanuary 22nd, 2011, 5:32 pm
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 657
(Unless we're infiltrating Beaver water)


Louis, if I didnít know better Iíd think you were talking about my Laphroiag.

Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Jmd123January 23rd, 2011, 10:48 am
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
Not sure how many people saw this, but if you didn't check out the little video clip that JAD posted on the thread, "Need...want another fly rod".

THESE are the folks I am talking about, if you have any doubt as to my diatribes here. If you haven't met them yet, trust me, keep fishing and you will...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
OldredbarnJanuary 24th, 2011, 9:03 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Geeez fellas and Casey! I guess old Spence will be needing to sell his Barbour jacket, his Hardy Gold Sovereign reel, and Bob Summers cane rod, so he can be "authentic" enough to fish with the other "99%" of you anti-snobbish snobs...:) Lets see,I need a 50 buck rod then...That's it, right? This will make me cool with everyone?

Our sport has a very, very long tradition of being a passtime of the upper crusty...And a very, very long tradition of loving fine tackle and a well wrapped rod and wonderfully constructed flies etc...Our dear friend Ernie Schwiebert was the personification of this though by what I've read above he may have been somehow in-authentic...He actually had a few bucks. Anyone here ever heard of Charles Ritz???

In the humble opinion of this very old classical Marxist, I say leave the "class-struggle" stuff off the river...Not absolutely everything has to be reduced to its lowest common denominator to be real...A $50 rod is fine and I have absolutely no problem with someone else fishing with one...

I guess I'm just a classical kind-a guy...classical marxism and classical angling tradition...I guess the "common folk" will be banning ole Spence from the public waters in their state...I'll be limited to the Test or the Itchen or Armstrongs out west...Hell! There's always Patagonia or New Zeeland I guess...

Back home here I'll be stopped by the angling police as I'm walking the path to the stream..."Mister. Can we see your papers?...You seem to be carrying a great deal of "high-end" gear to the stream this evening...We have to tally it all up...You know "ball-park-it" and if the total is too much, you know too expensive, you may have to be detained. Hey! Is that an actual amadou drying patch? Don't see them around much these days...How old is that thing anyway?"

Grumpy Monday morning Spence saying, anyone want to buy my Marryat reel??? I'm dumbing down I guess. I actually bought it on sale years ago from a shop that was going under...Does that work? I mean that I didn't actually pay full price for it...

This thread is so...so...I can't even find the word...I'm having a hard time breathing in here...

He and his partner left the place in obvious disgust, having uttered something like the above words several times. I kick myself now for not having grabbed him and showed him the $50 rods! We lost a potential fishing buddy and another newbie to our sport, who would have perhaps eventually contributed something of his own to our knowledge and probably gained some worthy knowledge of conservation. Our loss, and his too.


Spence says, "Let them walk! Two less yahoos spooking his trout!"





"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
CaseyPJanuary 24th, 2011, 10:03 am
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
Geeez fellas and Casey! I guess old Spence will be needing to sell his Barbour jacket, his Hardy Gold Sovereign reel, and Bob Summers cane rod, so he can be "authentic" enough to fish with the other "99%" of you anti-snobbish snobs...:) --Oldredrarn

Spence, old buddy, you read too fast. my very most favorite fishing gear happens to be top of the line, starting with that Winston. yeah, in some crowds it's a little presumptuous to haul it out, but i hope i fish well enough to forstall comment.
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
Jmd123January 24th, 2011, 12:34 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
Once again, you guys are missing the point of my rant. Makes me wonder - when I start going off on here, do you people only read every third sentence or something? Do I do that to your brains?? Geez, I guess I have some hidden power to turn off other people's neurons! Perhaps I should take advantage of that...

Go ahead and spend all you want on your own damned fishing tackle! It's YOUR MONEY after all!!! Who am I to tell you what to do? Isn't everybody always saying that "It's a free country"???

My point, which I obviously have to POINT OUT AGAIN, is that you DON'T HAVE TO spend a sh*tload of money to get decent tackle and become an accomplished fisherman. This will be my 27th season of throwing flies on a long rod and I think the fact that I am very satisfied with my casting and fish catching on downright cheap tackle speaks for itself. Now, hear this, if you THINK you are a better fisherman than me because your favorite rod costs 10 times what my favorite rod costs, then YOU ARE A SNOB as you are all afraid of being here. Not my accusation, your own in your own words as you have posted.

I think CaseyP gets it - there is no substitute for experience and learning. THAT IS MY POINT, yes in capital letters again because it keeps getting missed.

And Spence, your "Two less yahoos spooking his trout" are two less people concerned with protecting trout streams, wild trout, and perhaps natural environments in general. We are all fully aware that fly fishermen (and -women) are more likely to be involved in conservation issues than the average bait or spin fisherman, though many of them are getting on the bandwagon too. Don't we WANT more folks to be concerned with protecting our trout streams, or don't we care?? And who is MORE likely to get involved, the folks who learn from the ground up like I (and I think most other folks here) did and who come to love and cherish their local waters, or the aforementioned folks who can buy their way to any trout waters anywhere in the world and care less about their nearby waters because they never fish them?

But go ahead, Spence, and tell those newbies (remember, you and I were BOTH once newbies too, buddy!) that it's just too hard and expensive for them to get into the sport because they might crowd "your waters". Like you're really gonna run out of places to fish here in Michigan!! I don't particularily like crowds either, but I know plenty of places where they aren't...

Jonathon



No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
Jmd123January 24th, 2011, 12:39 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
P.S. Just because I don't have a lot of "disposible income" these days doens't mean I always buy the cheapest of EVERYTHING. I wouldn't be buying those $50-$60 rods if they didn't completely satisfy me, but they do. However, when it comes to things like optics, I have learned that cheap is most definitely NOT the way to go, in fact one should spend the most one possibly can and it shows. E.g., TeleVue eyepieces which are some of the most expensive on the market (because they are hand-made and hand-tested in a small family-owned shop in Massachusetts) but are easily worth every penny once you look through them. Once you've used them it's hard to convince yourself to save money on others...
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
Jmd123January 24th, 2011, 1:18 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2457
P.P.S. And Spence, one more thing...If you really want to keep away from all of those "yahoos", I suggest you save $$$ by buying those cheap fly rods that I like, and when you have a nice big stash saved up you can BUY YOUR OWN PRIVATE LAKE. I'm sure that will fit in with your "very old classical Marxist" philosophy very well...also, you mispelled New Zealand, unless you are referring to some new town also named Zeeland...

JMD
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
OldredbarnJanuary 24th, 2011, 2:29 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
I think something else is going on here and I'm not too sure what myself.

Mr. Spence does not own a Barbour jacket or a Hardy Sovereign reel or a Bob Summers rod...Unfortunately. He does own a rather odd sense of humor and has a very difficult time not making fun...I seem to have exposed a nerve here...One more PS from Jonathon and this whole thread will explode...:) There seemed to be a humorous thread from the start of this...Weren't we hinting that Shawnny's a "dandy" from Ithaca??? Weren't we discussing Cosmo...Please tell me you don't read my posts as 100% from gods lips to your ear...I have been known to bend the truth (whatever that is) from time-to-time...What in my post is actually the truth according to Spence??? I am rather fond of Ernie and found Mr. Ritz's book a great interesting read and I do dislike crowds on the river...I did misspell New Zealand as Zeeland...Hell...What can I say? I'm Dutch. My ancestors once skated on the Zuider Zee :). You mean it's spelled some other way??? Oh...It is true that Spence once visited the birth place of Mr Marx in Trier but I was a tourist...He did visit East Germany twice before the Wall came down...Hmmmmm...Maybe he should be reported...I really wish I could place a smiley face right here with a big old Karl Marx beard on it...Or better yet one of his cousin Groucho Marx. (Now I'm joking there...I do not know for a fact that Karl & Groucho were in anyway related).

Look I just can't stick those damn smiley faces all over my posts when I'm poking fun...I don't expect everyone to think I'm funny, but maybe we should all slow down when we are reading each others stuff. I kind of thought it was pretty apparent I had my tongue in my cheek. I was carrying on Falsefly's notion and he and I are going to jet off sometime to Patagonia together. Eat caviar and drink champagne in the evening and smack trout during the day...Read Cosmo during our down time.

I don't give a hoot what anyone carrys to the stream and Casey I promise not to speed read your posts...:)

But go ahead, Spence, and tell those newbies (remember, you and I were BOTH once newbies too, buddy!) that it's just too hard and expensive for them to get into the sport because they might crowd "your waters".


No Jonathon I think I might suggest that they look in to bowling or how about golf...I hear that's a nice sport. I am afraid that I was never a "newbie", I came out of the womb as a frowning old man...Ever read Gunther Grass?

Spence the Bemused...
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
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