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Specimen Discussion

> Hind wings?

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Taxon	August 27th, 2006, 9:55 pm
Site Editor Mercer Island, WA Posts: 921	Jason- My belief is that Plauditus, Pseudocloeon, and Procloeon are the Baetids absent hind wings, whereas Centroptilum (among the others) has minute hind wings. If I am correct, then given the choice you posed, that would make your specimen Centroptilum. This is (of course) strictly based on my having successfully digested the "available literature", and as I remember, there was a bit of inconsistency between authors in that area, so I probably chose to believe whichever one (or ones) I believed to have more credibility. Does any of this sound familiar?
	Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Troutnut	August 27th, 2006, 10:20 pm
The Admin Fairbanks, AK Posts: 2021	If I'm reading the key in Merritt & Cummins correctly, Procloeon can have hind wings present or absent. I think the angling literature is based on older sources, and the species were shuffled around a lot since the publication of most of those books. I tried to find a paper on Procloeon identification on the FAMU site without any luck. I guess I'll have to spend some time in the Cornell library this winter for this one.
	Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut
Entoman	July 13th, 2011, 5:39 pm
Site Editor Fair Oaks, CA Posts: 782	Jason & Roger- Boy, this is another example of the value of your updates to the site Jason. Even though this thread is almost 5 years old, it has important relevance to the current discussions we're having about the genus Centroptilum. The problems in place 5 years ago are still in play. Besides the shuffling among genera, to say morphological information on females of the species is scant is an understatement. Looking at the males there is one species I'm aware of with hind wings this severly slender (described as more than 6 times long as wide) that also has the spur (curving spike) and a national distribution. It is also one of those that "stayed home" in Centroptilum. In the old nomenclature it was referred to as C. convexum. It is now considered synonymous with C. album, which if I were to hazard a guess, is where I'd place this specimen for now. Hopefully somebody will be able to supply better information now or in the future, but this is such a beautiful example of the look, I'll move it there if you concur. Regards, Kurt
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Entoman	July 13th, 2011, 6:56 pm
Site Editor Fair Oaks, CA Posts: 782	Follow up- I forgot to address the elephant in the room which is the size of this critter. 7mm is definitely outsized for the genera, but not necessarily problematic. Another synonym of album, the prev. C. walshi has been documented to attain this size.
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Oldredbarn	July 14th, 2011, 1:37 pm
Novi, MI Posts: 1218	I don't want to in any way distract from your discussion on the placement of this one, but what a gorgeous bug! The photography is wonderful, but I wonder a bit on the lighting and its effect on its "true" color. But you can't beat the available detail etc. In the photo of its underside what's going on there in the area of the thorax? It appears to be bubbles you can see inside it. Thats not eggs that far up is it? Spence
Entoman	July 14th, 2011, 3:09 pm
Site Editor Fair Oaks, CA Posts: 782	Hi Spence, One of the fascinating things about macro-photography is the view it gives us of such fine details. Though they look like interior bubbles, they are actually chitinous little bumps or rings that are common on ventral surfaces of mayflies. They are definitely not eggs. Regards, Kurt
	"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Troutnut	July 14th, 2011, 5:06 pm
The Admin Fairbanks, AK Posts: 2021	Okay, I've moved this one into Centroptilum album for now.
	Jason Neuswanger The Troutnut

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