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> > Split Shot and big indicators

MotroutApril 23rd, 2010, 5:48 pm
Posts: 319
It seems like all the nymph fishers these days uses tons of split shot, and fish water right at their feet. Now, I don't care how others fish, but I guess this type of fishing has never much appealed to me. The gentle rythm of fly casting is totally lost. Don't get me wrong-I fish nymphs, but I use heavily weighted flies and flourocarbon tippet to get them to the bottom, not split shot. I also use small indicators, the little adhesive ones that don't interfere with the cast too much. As I said, I really don't care how other people choose to fish, so long as they are having a good time out there. It's none of my business. But does anyone else feel the same way about split shot and those big cork indicators that are so prevalent? It's too darn complicated and bulky when what I really want out there is simplicity.


I don't mean to criticize anyone. The guy I usually fish with has the split shot/big indicator bug real bad, and while I always give him trouble about it, I don't really care that much. It's just a little pet peeve of mine, and it may be kinda dumb of me to even bring it up. I have been accused of being unreasonable before.....
"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
WbranchApril 24th, 2010, 7:20 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2582
"The guy I usually fish with has the split shot/big indicator bug real bad, and while I always give him trouble about it, I don't really care that much. It's just a little pet peeve of mine, and it may be kinda dumb of me to even bring it up. I have been accused of being unreasonable before....."

Yes, sounds like your really a closet BB/big indicator guy who just doesn't want to be labeled as one. Sounds elitist to me.

Personally while still primarily a dry fly guy I have no qualms, or reservations, about loading up with as many BB's, or #3's, as necessary to get my nymph down to where the trout are when nymphing. It may not be pretty and it is more pitching than casting but isn't the intention to catch trout rather than just appear to look good and commune with nature?
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
JesseApril 24th, 2010, 8:59 am
Posts: 378
I mean i agree with you that that might be big and bulky. A lot of my friends throw those massive bubble indicators so i figured id give it a shot one day, and i really could tell the different in casting. But i don't think there is anything wrong with that if thats the individuals personal style, and also theres nothing wrong with some extra shot because sometimes thats what it takes to get to the big boys...
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
Jmd123April 24th, 2010, 1:19 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2416
I personally don't like having all of that "junk" on my leader when I'm fly casting, but then again, I'm not much of a nympher...dry flies and weighted streamers are my game. If I want a bobber and split shot, I'd rather throw them on a cute little ultralight spinning rod like one of my old Fenwicks. Fact is, I can catch just about all of the fish that I used to on said spinning rig these days on my dries and weighted streamers. The nice thing about fly tackle, though, is that you can go from a tiny little dry to a heavily weighted streamer without doing anything more than maybe changing your tippet and casting rhythem - as I have had to when throwing little stuff at bluegills and then seeing a big fat largemouth come within casting range...

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
Jmd123April 24th, 2010, 1:20 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2416
P.S. Or, to use a stream example, throwing weighted KBFs and WBs at smallies on the Huron and then changing to a #12 Elkhair caddis when a 13-incher started rising...

JMD
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
JOHNWApril 24th, 2010, 4:59 pm
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
I think it is a matter of "what it takes". Today I needed 5 BB shot to get my nyphs down and keep them there otherwise there was no shot at getting the fish.
On the indicator side of things I tend to favor slide on sleeve type indicators jammed onto two or three of the knots on the taper section of my leader. Although the other summer a guide had us using thos ballon type indicators on the "Mo" with #18-20 nymphs. He swore that they were the most sensitive system for that type of fishing. We caught a bunch of fish so why argue.
As for "fishing the water at their feet" I am a big fan for getting as close as possible regardless of method (dries,nymphs, wets, streamers.....). This may have more to do with maintaining line control but if it works...........

In the end it comes down to each his own
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
MotroutApril 24th, 2010, 5:52 pm
Posts: 319
Yeah, okay West Branch, I'm an elitist. That would explain why I defended the guy who asked for spin fishing advice.
This is one of your posts on the same topic

"This is primarily a fly fishing forum and we'd all rather see you fly fishing than throwing Mepps, Panther Martins, and Rapala's. Get rid of that spin rod and get into fly fishing.
P.S. Just say NO to bait!"


And I'm the elitist.
I did say big indicators and split shot are pet peeves of mine, but I also said I don't really care how anyone else fishes.
"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
WbranchApril 24th, 2010, 6:06 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2582
I don't really care either but if I agreed with all the posts it would be boring so I add a few incendiary comments once in awhile to spark some interesting communication.

Yea I said it was mainly a fly fishing forum but I didn't denigrate guys who spin did I? I didn't call them boorish pinheads either.

"and we'd all rather see you fly fishing than throwing Mepps, Panther Martins, and Rapala's. Get rid of that spin rod and get into fly fishing."

I said we'd RATHER see you fly fishing that's all. My comment "get rid of the spin rod and and into fly fishing" was not meant to belittle spin guys but more tongue in cheek. Sorry I put you off.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Jmd123April 24th, 2010, 9:20 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2416
FIVE SPLIT SHOT????? That sounds f-ing horrible to cast. If that's what it takes to get down to the trout I would RATHER use a SPINNING ROD myself.

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
MotroutApril 24th, 2010, 9:32 pm
Posts: 319
Well it's just when people call me an elitist it's really upsetting, I can't hardly handle it. It makes me want to cry.
Naw, I'm just yanking your chain brother. No need to worry about it.
"I don't know what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know."-John Gierach
http://fishingintheozarks.blogspot.com/
WbranchApril 24th, 2010, 9:45 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2582
"If that's what it takes to get down to the trout I would RATHER use a SPINNING ROD myself."

Okay, go at it!!

Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
KeystonerApril 25th, 2010, 8:49 am
Eugene, OR - formerly Eastern PA

Posts: 145
Ok, OK, OK, let's calm down and get back to the topic at hand...

I'm currently reading a book called "Active Nymphing" By Rich Osthoff. In which the author describes a very smooth casting style for "slinging shot". Apparently if "chuck and duck" is your plan, your doing it wrong, says him. I really don't know though, as I'm new, and still feeling all this out. Sounds good though.

At first I was a little put off when shot came up in fly fishing, having thought that I had left that behind with the spin rod. Now though I don't so much mind. It is what it is. My biggest problem is that I can't seem to get the BBs to hold, and find that they slide down the leader. So I spend a lot of time messing with and repositioning them. As far as indicators are concerned, I usually skip it, and just watch the end of the fly line. If I do use one it's a football style job, however, I have noticed the same problem of sliding down the leader with these as well.
"Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB
WbranchApril 25th, 2010, 9:08 am
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2582
"Apparently if "chuck and duck" is your plan, your doing it wrong, says him."

Well shucks after fifty years of chucking 'n ducking you can't teach an ole dog new tricks.

BTW if your BB's aren't holding on your leader it is either you aren't pinching them on tightly enough - you should be using the soft lead or "green" shot and squeezing them on with a pair forceps or little pliers. Or possibly the tippet is just so small a diameter it is hard for the shot to get a bite onto the leader. I also find it difficult to hold the shot in place on 5X or 6X tippets. To get past this blood knot a tippet no longer than 18" - 24" to the leader then apply the split shot just above the blood knot then no matter how hard you roll cast the BB's can't slide down.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
JOHNWApril 25th, 2010, 4:13 pm
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
The 5 BB's is miserable to cast in the traditional sense however a modified water haule with a tuck cast can sling them pretty much where I want them.

The spot I was fisshing was where a medium river that averages 50' chokes down to less than 20' and dumps over a vein of limestone into a waist deep run. The fish were holding right on bottom and not moving to eat so you had to put it on their nose. With anything less than the 5 shot I could not get down and feel the bottom.
In the end I came up in the school of the diference between a good day of nymphing and a great day of nymphing is one more split shot.

In this particular case a spinning rod might have been the better choice HOWEVER it also would have been illeagl as this is a FF only section of water sooooooooooooooo...................

Of course if the fish had been working the surface the lead never would have seen the light of day but that is a different story altogether.


"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
MartinlfApril 25th, 2010, 5:37 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2968
Keystoner,

Tungsten putty will also help with the sliding down the tippet problem. and it can be pulled free it it hangs sometimes. I use it a good bit, especially with smaller flies.

"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
AltoidmattApril 27th, 2010, 7:59 am
Altoona, PA

Posts: 7
Lets face it, To spinning rod fishermen we are all elitist. Maybe we brought it on ourselves with the classic button up shirt look. I'm not above bait fishing for walleye or something but I'm surprised how many guys I'll start talking fly fishing with that put bait on a fly rod for trout. They actually call it fly fishing!
Anyhow,Split shot and indicators are both useful for me.
EricdApril 30th, 2010, 6:31 pm
Mpls, MN

Posts: 113
Motrout, I can relate. I actually refused to use both indicators and shot until this year (not saying much for the short amount of time I've been fly fishing). I was even having a hard time using huge WBs because of the effect it had on my casting. The sound in the air and the plop(s) in the water annoyed me too.

As a very new tier, I've been trying to add as much wire to the shank on my ugly nymphs to keep from using much shot.

I was laughing a little at myself this weekend about it. I spooled a fly reel with mono and had three-four split shots, plus a cork indicator and then the yarn for steelhead. I was NOT fly fishing and it only lasted a few hours before I put a correct reel on. The mono guys were catching much more fish.

Eric
KeystonerSeptember 9th, 2010, 6:48 pm
Eugene, OR - formerly Eastern PA

Posts: 145
Recently I have been finding indicators to be a frustration. Having trouble deciphering genuine takes from "caught on rocks, etc", causing me to set the hook on nothing ALL THE TIME!! Any remedies??
"Out into the cool of the evening, strolls the Pretender. He knows that all his hopes and dreams, begin and end there." -JB
Jmd123September 9th, 2010, 7:39 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2416
Keystoner, try DRY FLIES... ;oD

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
DryflySeptember 9th, 2010, 8:18 pm
rochester mn

Posts: 133
Keep setting the hook, if you are not snagging bottom then you are not gonna catch fish with nymphs. Find a reason to set the hook once every drift.
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