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> > UV Materials and if they really help ?

TilmanFebruary 17th, 2010, 11:23 am
Gemany

Posts: 37
I know for sure that the UV spray (for spraying lures, flies and bait) is around for at least a year as i have bought the spray about a year ago. I didnīt give it a proper try until i discovered the weekend before last that the "black neon pheasant tail gold headed nymphs" (what a name !) that i had tied with a ribbing of UV Flash strands were astonishingly more successful than any other i had tried on that day. I now have put some of the spray fluid in a little ink bottle and painted a nymph with it and i will give it a coating with a clear nail top coat. The spray has no smell at all so this is not the reason for it being an advantage.

I wondered if you have tried anything of that kind ?

It says in one advertisement that the fish sees UV rays much more than normal reflections and it enhances colours a lot.

I know that it isnīt always an advantage to have a glistening nymph or fly but in certain conditions (dark sky while nymph fishing, streamers in deep water, etc.) can be a real bonus.
"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock

http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0
SofthackleFebruary 18th, 2010, 6:50 am
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Hi Tilman,
I've not used any UV material that I know of, however there is some evidence that fish can see UV, and how they see it is the question. Not sure if any research has been done in this area. Perhaps a web search might turn something up.

I have been using blended dubbing, somewhat, to produce a more impressionistic effect on flies as suggested by John Atherton. I think color and how it affects our fish take is a very interesting subject.

Another interesting area is the use of fluorescent materials now available for use on flies. Their reflective quality surely are more easily seen by the fish, and the use of "hot spots" on certain patterns is a subject in the same vane.

How about a total hot spot:


I call it Stomach Flu

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
MartinlfFebruary 18th, 2010, 8:14 am
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2933
I've been using some UV ice dub blended with other dubbing from time to time. Can't say that I've noticed a big difference. But it's an interesting concept. We'll probably never have controlled double-blind studies to give us answers to any of these kind of questions (i.e. if hot spots, spectrumized dubbing, UV dubbing, etc. make a difference). So much has to do with so many variables it's maddening to even begin to think how one could get a definitive answer. But I've come to the conclusion, and bet many of the rest of you have, that anything that boosts your faith in a pattern and possibly gives the fish something unusual or new to look at has a potentially beneficial effect. A friend of mine was using s nymph a season or so ago that looked to me like it had been created by putting angel hair in a dubbing loop and wrapping it up the shank. He was catching fish in a relatively thoroughly pounded stream with it. I meant to try to duplicate it, but haven't gotten around to it. However, I think this example suggests the idea that the above conclusion has some merit. I certainly have my pet flies, but I'm not at all convinced that a different fly might work just as well--perhaps a very standard one--if fished exactly the same way. But I still tie and fish my pets like they are the only thing that will work. Funny the games we play with ourselves. Or not? I really don't know. Or care all that much, as long as I can connect with a fish from time to time.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
OldredbarnFebruary 18th, 2010, 9:49 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Mark,

The Stomach Flu...I like that! It might be an interesting experiment to float it over some Michigan Steelhead and see if they have had their Flu shots...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TilmanFebruary 18th, 2010, 10:07 am
Gemany

Posts: 37
@ Softhackle:

I had tried a Fluo Colour (Wapsi Fluo pink) on the mentioned occasion but the response was not very good. The sky was cloudy.
Someonesīfloat was drifting on the surface and they attacked the fluo orange part of the thing for quite a while.

You can look up all the flies in my signature link, the one with the UV ribbing is in the same box as others of the same style but with red and green dubbing (maybe white as well, all gold headed nymphs with "wings").

I am not talking about wild trout here, but it was an outstanding result anyway, that is why i had the idea of sharing some thoughts with you.

I use UV Dubbing on some flies as well, but i have not been fishing a natural stream with the fly, so i canīt say very much about that.

It could spook the fish on some conditions, iīm quite sure about that.

Good to read that you like the topic, maybe time will tell and if we keep it in the back of our minds we know more in the future. There is some serious field testing to be done.



"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock

http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0
OldredbarnFebruary 18th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Guys,

We have all used some sort of flash material at some time in our tying and are probably not sure how or why it seems to work...As Louis alluded to we are never really going to know until Mr. Trout learns to somehow tell us the what's and why's of what he does...At that point chasing him may lose all it's charm.


In high school there was a new batch of students that came up from the junior high one year and there was this cute blond that caught my eye...We smiled at each other when we passed in the hall etc and I was all worked up...I'll admit...She was on my mind quite a bit. I finally got my nerve up to speak to her and visited her at her parent's house one evening only to find that her and I were from totally different planets...The fantasy was way better than the reality...It's all about the chase sometimes, eh!

I was at a fly fishing show several years back and I think it was A.K.Best, but don't hold him or I to this, that said something that interested me. He was wondering if, in nature, it would be a good thing for say a mayfly nymph to be flashy...Why would nature want to draw attention to itself and expose itself to all those predators out there? This seems counter productive or counter intuitive at least.

If all those aquatic bugs we like to imitate and the trout love to eat held up signs that they were there...none of them would be left. It's tough enough as it is to make it to reproduction! What a gauntlet these little critters must run.

Maybe they don't glisten at all in nature and the creative side of us tyer's is what's forcing us to include flashy materials in our tying and we have convinced ourselves that it works...Maybe, if it doesn't scare them as Tilman said, it just catches their attention like that little blond in the hallway of my high school...Otherwise she would of just blended in and I would of swam right by...

We have created a whole slew of materials that are designed to imitate trailing shucks, sparkle pupa, flashback nymphs etc and all of us use them...Maybe Konchu, Taxon, or Gonzo, or Jason could expand on this a bit. Wouldn't nature evolve a system where survival would be better assured as opposed to drawing attention to itself and exposing it to extinction?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TaxonFebruary 18th, 2010, 3:29 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1299
In high school there was a new batch of students that came up from the junior high one year and there was this cute blond that caught my eye...We smiled at each other when we passed in the hall etc and I was all worked up...I'll admit...


Spence-

Ah yes, this is what we call an "attractor" pattern. As you eloquently describe, they seem to be extremely effective, largely independent of the size of the target's brain.

Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
TilmanFebruary 18th, 2010, 3:34 pm
Gemany

Posts: 37
Yeah, good point, Spence.

In the daily natural selection there are a few "mishaps" in reproduction.

Let us assume an albino fly (of any kind). The chances to survive would be minimal because any trout would see it from miles away and eat it, i guess. That is, unless they are preoccupied with a certain food-scheme.

This is why i said that it would work well on some occasions and even have a spooking effect on others ... Or it may even differ from trout to trout ?!

The more we know the more we know how much we donīt know ... I guess that describes our dilemma very well (*grin*)
"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock

http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0
SofthackleFebruary 18th, 2010, 5:35 pm
Site Editor
Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
AH! Yes, there are things in nature that call attention to, say prey. A hurt leg on an antelope; a wildebeest that lags behind; a trapped insect, struggling in the film; perhaps a tiny air bubble of a diving mayfly ready to deposit eggs on the bottom.

We, as tiers, are creating an illusion, much like the artist creating the illusion of depth in a realistic painting, only the tier is more like the impressionist. It is important to "give life" to our creations and things like reflective mylar, ice dub, "spectrumized", dubbing and the like help us to achieve the illusion.

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
OldredbarnFebruary 18th, 2010, 7:05 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Roger,

You are funny! Maybe this "target" was using the smaller brain and not the one between his temporal lobes! What do you think?

I have a sister that lives in Hawaii and we are limited to emails to each other to keep in touch...She sent me the following: A little boy was sitting in the tube taking a bath and checking out his testicles. He asked his mother, "Are these my brains?" She said, "No dear! Not yet."

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TaxonFebruary 18th, 2010, 9:43 pm
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1299
Hmm.
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
TilmanFebruary 19th, 2010, 12:35 am
Gemany

Posts: 37
I like tying the most natural flies very much, no doubt about that.

But as Spence said and Softhackle undermined as well it just may be that a pattern that stands out of the crowd (at least to some extend) catches the eye (and hopefully the trout as well).

To set up a proper research on this would be amazingly complex as there are so many possibilities to test.

I have divided the Fly-Tiers into a few categories:

1. The Naturalist (or Super-Impressionist, e.g. Oliver Edwards)

2. The Caricaturist (i know at least one personally)

(and then there are those streamers and flies that are beyond both, maybe Clowns describes it best, no offense meant, as they have some success and i donīt mind tying a Clown and even fishing with a Clown-Fly)

"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock

http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0
OldredbarnFebruary 19th, 2010, 10:53 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Roger,

I'm sorry! I'm really sorry! I'm not sure what came over me...Maybe I've been reading too many of Louis's posts...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
MartinlfFebruary 20th, 2010, 12:46 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2933
"No dear, not yet." Now that's funny.

I hear this from my spouse even today, though the context is somewhat different.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
PatcrisciMarch 7th, 2010, 7:38 am
Lagrangeville, NY

Posts: 119
a great thread with lots of interesting ideas and stories from blondes, to brains and the thought of flashy mayflies.

I knew a guy named Art Broadie (he passed a few years back). He was known to all as The Black Ghost and had hand-painted on both sides of his panel truck a larger than life full dress Black Ghost streamer with the words "The Black Ghost" underneath.

Art haunted the Beaverkill, was friendly with Walt and Winnie Dette and often joined them for evening games of pinochle, retiring afterward to his home made camper which he parked on Cottage St. in Roscoe. Art fished a 91/2 ft home made fiberglass rod for a 7 weight and threw big streamers most of the time. When he wasn't throwing hackle wing streamers he liked to fish a Fanwing Royal Coachman.

So, back to the flashy mayfly, Art had an expression for the big gaudy flies he favored. He used to fish a big wet fly of his own design called the Harlem Butterfly. I'm not sure how he dressed it but it looked like an Atlantic Salmon fly gone wild. Lots of tinsel and hot dubbing in psychedelic colors (remember this was the late sixties, think Woodstock). Who knows, maybe the trout were tuned in to it?
Pat Crisci
EricdMarch 9th, 2010, 7:26 pm
Mpls, MN

Posts: 113
A guide in my region told me recently that he is tying, as identical as possible, flies with one having UV and the other not and studying the outcome for the entire season as a goal.
eric
Dryfly2January 17th, 2014, 10:00 am
Mad River Valley (Ohio)

Posts: 1
a great thread with lots of interesting ideas and stories from blondes, to brains and the thought of flashy mayflies.

I knew a guy named Art Broadie (he passed a few years back). He was known to all as The Black Ghost and had hand-painted on both sides of his panel truck a larger than life full dress Black Ghost streamer with the words "The Black Ghost" underneath.

Art haunted the Beaverkill, was friendly with Walt and Winnie Dette and often joined them for evening games of pinochle, retiring afterward to his home made camper which he parked on Cottage St. in Roscoe. Art fished a 91/2 ft home made fiberglass rod for a 7 weight and threw big streamers most of the time. When he wasn't throwing hackle wing streamers he liked to fish a Fanwing Royal Coachman.

So, back to the flashy mayfly, Art had an expression for the big gaudy flies he favored. He used to fish a big wet fly of his own design called the Harlem Butterfly. I'm not sure how he dressed it but it looked like an Atlantic Salmon fly gone wild. Lots of tinsel and hot dubbing in psychedelic colors (remember this was the late sixties, think Woodstock). Who knows, maybe the trout were tuned in to it?


Pat,

Do you have anymore info on this wet fly?

Thanks Dennis/ dryfly2
EntomanJanuary 17th, 2014, 12:08 pm
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Welcome to the forum, Dennis.

Don't take it as a snub if Pat doesn't answer. Unfortunately, the fly pattern you are asking about is in a post almost 4 years old and the last one he shared with us. We have many contributors that become quite active for a period and then are never heard from again. Such is the nature of web forums, I guess.

There are a multitude of characters/legends of great skill in every trout region that come up with interesting recipes. Most never get recognition in the lore of our sport and reside only in the fading memories of those few that were blessed to know them. This sounds like one. Perhaps somebody else will read your question that has the answer? We can hope at least.:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
PlanettroutJanuary 26th, 2014, 6:16 pm
Los Angeles, CA / Pullman, WA

Posts: 53
Hi...I have been tying a lot with the Spirit River UV 2 products since they first came out.

< />

It is suggested (by Spirit River) that a reflective material such as white thread, pearl mylar or silver tinsel be used as a base on the hook shank to get the most effectiveness out of the product. Here are some Baron variants I have just completed using UV 2 Turkey biots:


< />

< />

< />


Do they work? In my experience, the Trout say yes...

PT/TB
Daughter to Father: "How many arms do you have, how many fly rods do you need?"

http://planettrout.wordpress.com/
OldredbarnJanuary 27th, 2014, 12:25 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
"Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker"

I'm not sure what we are trying to accomplish with all this so-called marketing "science" creeping into our tradition. Those flies above are nice and will no doubt catch fish if tied using some other material.

Out thinking the beautiful but pea-brained trout shouldn't be so damn complicated. If one were simply to improve their casting ability, materials used may not be so important. Would not be such a crutch.

The easiest way to nab a trout, me thinks, would be by throwing a stump buster in the creek. UV materials, really?!

:)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
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