UV Materials and if they really help ?

Tilman	February 17th, 2010, 11:23 am
Gemany Posts: 38	I know for sure that the UV spray (for spraying lures, flies and bait) is around for at least a year as i have bought the spray about a year ago. I didn´t give it a proper try until i discovered the weekend before last that the "black neon pheasant tail gold headed nymphs" (what a name !) that i had tied with a ribbing of UV Flash strands were astonishingly more successful than any other i had tried on that day. I now have put some of the spray fluid in a little ink bottle and painted a nymph with it and i will give it a coating with a clear nail top coat. The spray has no smell at all so this is not the reason for it being an advantage. I wondered if you have tried anything of that kind ? It says in one advertisement that the fish sees UV rays much more than normal reflections and it enhances colours a lot. I know that it isn´t always an advantage to have a glistening nymph or fly but in certain conditions (dark sky while nymph fishing, streamers in deep water, etc.) can be a real bonus.
	"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0

Softhackle	February 18th, 2010, 6:50 am
Site Editor Wellsville, NY Posts: 479	Hi Tilman, I've not used any UV material that I know of, however there is some evidence that fish can see UV, and how they see it is the question. Not sure if any research has been done in this area. Perhaps a web search might turn something up. I have been using blended dubbing, somewhat, to produce a more impressionistic effect on flies as suggested by John Atherton. I think color and how it affects our fish take is a very interesting subject. Another interesting area is the use of fluorescent materials now available for use on flies. Their reflective quality surely are more easily seen by the fish, and the use of "hot spots" on certain patterns is a subject in the same vane. How about a total hot spot: I call it Stomach Flu Mark
	"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders

Martinlf	February 18th, 2010, 8:14 am
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 1722	I've been using some UV ice dub blended with other dubbing from time to time. Can't say that I've noticed a big difference. But it's an interesting concept. We'll probably never have controlled double-blind studies to give us answers to any of these kind of questions (i.e. if hot spots, spectrumized dubbing, UV dubbing, etc. make a difference). So much has to do with so many variables it's maddening to even begin to think how one could get a definitive answer. But I've come to the conclusion, and bet many of the rest of you have, that anything that boosts your faith in a pattern and possibly gives the fish something unusual or new to look at has a potentially beneficial effect. A friend of mine was using s nymph a season or so ago that looked to me like it had been created by putting angel hair in a dubbing loop and wrapping it up the shank. He was catching fish in a relatively thoroughly pounded stream with it. I meant to try to duplicate it, but haven't gotten around to it. However, I think this example suggests the idea that the above conclusion has some merit. I certainly have my pet flies, but I'm not at all convinced that a different fly might work just as well--perhaps a very standard one--if fished exactly the same way. But I still tie and fish my pets like they are the only thing that will work. Funny the games we play with ourselves. Or not? I really don't know. Or care all that much, as long as I can connect with a fish from time to time.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell

Oldredbarn	February 18th, 2010, 9:49 am
Novi, MI Posts: 1218	Mark, The Stomach Flu...I like that! It might be an interesting experiment to float it over some Michigan Steelhead and see if they have had their Flu shots... Spence

Tilman	February 18th, 2010, 10:07 am
Gemany Posts: 38	@ Softhackle: I had tried a Fluo Colour (Wapsi Fluo pink) on the mentioned occasion but the response was not very good. The sky was cloudy. Someones´float was drifting on the surface and they attacked the fluo orange part of the thing for quite a while. You can look up all the flies in my signature link, the one with the UV ribbing is in the same box as others of the same style but with red and green dubbing (maybe white as well, all gold headed nymphs with "wings"). I am not talking about wild trout here, but it was an outstanding result anyway, that is why i had the idea of sharing some thoughts with you. I use UV Dubbing on some flies as well, but i have not been fishing a natural stream with the fly, so i can´t say very much about that. It could spook the fish on some conditions, i´m quite sure about that. Good to read that you like the topic, maybe time will tell and if we keep it in the back of our minds we know more in the future. There is some serious field testing to be done.
	"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0

Oldredbarn	February 18th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Novi, MI Posts: 1218	Guys, We have all used some sort of flash material at some time in our tying and are probably not sure how or why it seems to work...As Louis alluded to we are never really going to know until Mr. Trout learns to somehow tell us the what's and why's of what he does...At that point chasing him may lose all it's charm. In high school there was a new batch of students that came up from the junior high one year and there was this cute blond that caught my eye...We smiled at each other when we passed in the hall etc and I was all worked up...I'll admit...She was on my mind quite a bit. I finally got my nerve up to speak to her and visited her at her parent's house one evening only to find that her and I were from totally different planets...The fantasy was way better than the reality...It's all about the chase sometimes, eh! I was at a fly fishing show several years back and I think it was A.K.Best, but don't hold him or I to this, that said something that interested me. He was wondering if, in nature, it would be a good thing for say a mayfly nymph to be flashy...Why would nature want to draw attention to itself and expose itself to all those predators out there? This seems counter productive or counter intuitive at least. If all those aquatic bugs we like to imitate and the trout love to eat held up signs that they were there...none of them would be left. It's tough enough as it is to make it to reproduction! What a gauntlet these little critters must run. Maybe they don't glisten at all in nature and the creative side of us tyer's is what's forcing us to include flashy materials in our tying and we have convinced ourselves that it works...Maybe, if it doesn't scare them as Tilman said, it just catches their attention like that little blond in the hallway of my high school...Otherwise she would of just blended in and I would of swam right by... We have created a whole slew of materials that are designed to imitate trailing shucks, sparkle pupa, flashback nymphs etc and all of us use them...Maybe Konchu, Taxon, or Gonzo, or Jason could expand on this a bit. Wouldn't nature evolve a system where survival would be better assured as opposed to drawing attention to itself and exposing it to extinction? Inquiring minds want to know... Spence

Taxon	February 18th, 2010, 3:29 pm
Site Editor Mercer Island, WA Posts: 921	In high school there was a new batch of students that came up from the junior high one year and there was this cute blond that caught my eye...We smiled at each other when we passed in the hall etc and I was all worked up...I'll admit... Spence- Ah yes, this is what we call an "attractor" pattern. As you eloquently describe, they seem to be extremely effective, largely independent of the size of the target's brain.
	Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Tilman	February 18th, 2010, 3:34 pm
Gemany Posts: 38	Yeah, good point, Spence. In the daily natural selection there are a few "mishaps" in reproduction. Let us assume an albino fly (of any kind). The chances to survive would be minimal because any trout would see it from miles away and eat it, i guess. That is, unless they are preoccupied with a certain food-scheme. This is why i said that it would work well on some occasions and even have a spooking effect on others ... Or it may even differ from trout to trout ?! The more we know the more we know how much we don´t know ... I guess that describes our dilemma very well (grin)
	"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0

Softhackle	February 18th, 2010, 5:35 pm
Site Editor Wellsville, NY Posts: 479	AH! Yes, there are things in nature that call attention to, say prey. A hurt leg on an antelope; a wildebeest that lags behind; a trapped insect, struggling in the film; perhaps a tiny air bubble of a diving mayfly ready to deposit eggs on the bottom. We, as tiers, are creating an illusion, much like the artist creating the illusion of depth in a realistic painting, only the tier is more like the impressionist. It is important to "give life" to our creations and things like reflective mylar, ice dub, "spectrumized", dubbing and the like help us to achieve the illusion. Mark
	"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders

Oldredbarn	February 18th, 2010, 7:05 pm
Novi, MI Posts: 1218	Roger, You are funny! Maybe this "target" was using the smaller brain and not the one between his temporal lobes! What do you think? I have a sister that lives in Hawaii and we are limited to emails to each other to keep in touch...She sent me the following: A little boy was sitting in the tube taking a bath and checking out his testicles. He asked his mother, "Are these my brains?" She said, "No dear! Not yet." Spence

Taxon	February 18th, 2010, 9:43 pm
Site Editor Mercer Island, WA Posts: 921	Hmm.
	Roger Rohrbeck www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Tilman	February 19th, 2010, 12:35 am
Gemany Posts: 38	I like tying the most natural flies very much, no doubt about that. But as Spence said and Softhackle undermined as well it just may be that a pattern that stands out of the crowd (at least to some extend) catches the eye (and hopefully the trout as well). To set up a proper research on this would be amazingly complex as there are so many possibilities to test. I have divided the Fly-Tiers into a few categories: 1. The Naturalist (or Super-Impressionist, e.g. Oliver Edwards) 2. The Caricaturist (i know at least one personally) (and then there are those streamers and flies that are beyond both, maybe Clowns describes it best, no offense meant, as they have some success and i don´t mind tying a Clown and even fishing with a Clown-Fly)
	"Live and Learn" - Mr. Spock http://www.directupload.net/galerie/154319/LfyCOrbM3j/0

Oldredbarn	February 19th, 2010, 10:53 am
Novi, MI Posts: 1218	Roger, I'm sorry! I'm really sorry! I'm not sure what came over me...Maybe I've been reading too many of Louis's posts... Spence

Martinlf	February 20th, 2010, 12:46 pm
Moderator Palmyra PA Posts: 1722	"No dear, not yet." Now that's funny. I hear this from my spouse even today, though the context is somewhat different.
	"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'" --Fred Chappell

Patcrisci	March 7th, 2010, 7:38 am
Lagrangeville, NY Posts: 119	a great thread with lots of interesting ideas and stories from blondes, to brains and the thought of flashy mayflies. I knew a guy named Art Broadie (he passed a few years back). He was known to all as The Black Ghost and had hand-painted on both sides of his panel truck a larger than life full dress Black Ghost streamer with the words "The Black Ghost" underneath. Art haunted the Beaverkill, was friendly with Walt and Winnie Dette and often joined them for evening games of pinochle, retiring afterward to his home made camper which he parked on Cottage St. in Roscoe. Art fished a 91/2 ft home made fiberglass rod for a 7 weight and threw big streamers most of the time. When he wasn't throwing hackle wing streamers he liked to fish a Fanwing Royal Coachman. So, back to the flashy mayfly, Art had an expression for the big gaudy flies he favored. He used to fish a big wet fly of his own design called the Harlem Butterfly. I'm not sure how he dressed it but it looked like an Atlantic Salmon fly gone wild. Lots of tinsel and hot dubbing in psychedelic colors (remember this was the late sixties, think Woodstock). Who knows, maybe the trout were tuned in to it?
	Pat Crisci

Ericd	March 9th, 2010, 7:26 pm
Mpls, MN Posts: 112	A guide in my region told me recently that he is tying, as identical as possible, flies with one having UV and the other not and studying the outcome for the entire season as a goal. eric

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