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> > "Wanna bet?" Trtklr banned. And note on forum rules..., Page 2

OldredbarnDecember 15th, 2009, 10:55 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Lee,

I hope you didn't strain yourself too much here this morning with this. Sounds like you are blowing some of the dust off the old porch...I do some dust blowing myself from time-to-time though I never seem to really get anywhere...Do you have an extra bowl of Raisin Bran?

In support of one of your threads..."I'd quibble ever so slightly that the public lands portion of the angling access mix in this country is an example of "socialism"."

Here in Michigan the loggers basically flattened everything for as far as you could see. Then they tried to convince folks via "homesteading" that they could farm on soil only fit for Jack Pine scrub and when their endevours failed, the land went back to the state for future exploitation...Our benefit is very large tracts, on either side of the upper-lower, as we say here, that have become state forests with wonderful rivers running through them.

Imagine this, considering we are looking back with modern eyes...On the North Branch of the Au Sable in Lovell's there is an old lodge that Edison and Ford fished from. You would think that they would be nice to this stream since they loved to fish it so.

Downstream from town and their lodge there is an access site still known as Dam 4. They would actually dam the North Branch and during the winter they would pile logs on top of the iced over lake formed behind the dam. Come spring they would dynamite the dam and run their logs downstream in a flood to the Mainstream and down to Oscoda for processing.

In the process they somehow whacked the poor lowly Grayling which was the game fish there at the time. No problem...We will import Browns from Germany, Rainbow Trout from out west, and transport some of those native Brookies here from the other side of the state. I've said this here before...The only Grayling left is hanging on the wall of the Grayling restaurant.

I use to stay in a cabin in Lovell's up the street from the old Douglas Lodge where Ford and his buddies stayed. On the wall of the little check in room of the cabins where I stayed was an old panarama type photo taken from near where I stayed...The North Branch looked like a meadow stream...Absolutley no trees to be seen anywhere in the photo.

Yes we have beautiful forests up there, but I think only as long as the good old captains of capitalism can't figure out just how to exploit it again...

Hey Lee! My wife is calling me to lunch...I'd better run...She'll pour some water on my head to cool it down a bit.

Nice post by the way...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
StrmfshrDecember 15th, 2009, 10:56 am
Banned
Posts: 12
yeah, i'm an ass.

and a racist redneck, according to jason. he also doesn't think i have any reppublican friends. typical of scientists today, they don't use evidence to make their claims,just an agenda will do.

just remember this all started about a year ago when jason lied to have people read about his post on fishing in alaska. i had to remind you all of that 'cause today i heard rush talking about how libs need to lie to draw attention to their cause.

i also stopped posting about 4 months ago, until you all thought you would start ripping on republicans. i think it was louis i read say "i knew i could get a rise out of trtklr"

you guys bring this on, i'm just following obama's lead of hit back twoice as hard.

jason, i hope you have learned a valuable lesson. if you want a fish forum, then talk about fishing. if you want a political site all you need is a spark.

btw, i make relationships with people everyday, and have been for the last 12 years. i know a lot of people.

i tell you what, if i'm so wrong dems will win seats next fall, but when republicans win big, i'll be back. . . big. until then i will leave. see all you nuts then. i truly wish you all great fishing
Jmd123December 15th, 2009, 12:42 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2368
I'll simply skip over the latest rantings of the 7-year-old and say, hey, Lee and Spence, thanks for commenting on my posting. Lee, you pretty much make exactly the point I am trying to make - we live in a mixed economic system that works better than going to "purity" at either extreme. There are plenty of history lessons on why neither capitalism nor socialism work very well as the exclusive economic/political system in any given country: government can abuse power in a purely "socialist" system (e.g., the bad old Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.) and big business can abuse power when the government is too weak (e.g., the United States in the late 1800s - a certain man with the initials T.R. put a stop to that). I'll take my public waters with my Lamson Velocity any day...

Spence, I always like to say that Grayling is the town named after the fish that it killed...

Good posts, gentlemen. I will not address the posts of the child.

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
TroutnutDecember 16th, 2009, 8:44 am
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2533
If it were Jason's wish that anybody posting here provide evidence that they always wear a feather boa and a set of elk antlers while participating in the discussion, that is within his prerogative..


That suggestion is so brilliant I'm going to have to seriously consider it!

Speaking only for myself, I feel more "worthy" when I've spent half the morning using my maps and ending up at dead ends before I find the right road in than I would by simply getting in the car and punching in a set of coordinates. Burt again, that's just me..


There's no shortage of challenges in this sport. I welcome technologies that make one thing easier, because it usually frees up my time for something I find more interesting, like obsessing over bugs.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
TroutnutDecember 16th, 2009, 7:53 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2533
Here's an article that sums up pretty well what I think of the Republicans right now:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-republicans-religion-and-the-triumph-of-unreason-1773994.html

It opens:

Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarised by the comedian Bill Maher: "The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital."


Another key quote:

This tendency to simply deny inconvenient facts and invent a fantasy world isn't new; it's only becoming more heightened. It ran through the Bush years like a dash of bourbon in water. When it became clear that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, the US right simply claimed they had been shipped to Syria. When the scientific evidence for man-made global warming became unanswerable, they claimed as one Republican congressman put it that it was "the greatest hoax in human history", and that all the world's climatologists were "liars". The American media then presents itself as an umpire between "the rival sides", as if they both had evidence behind them.

It's a shame, because there are some areas in which a conservative philosophy reminding us of the limits of grand human schemes, and advising caution could be a useful corrective. But that's not what these so-called "conservatives" are providing: instead, they are pumping up a hysterical fantasy that serves as a thin skin covering some raw economic interests and base prejudices.

For many of the people at the top of the party, this is merely cynical manipulation. One of Bush's former advisers, David Kuo, has said the President and Karl Rove would mock evangelicals as "nuts" as soon as they left the Oval Office. But the ordinary Republican base believe this stuff. They are being tricked into opposing their own interests through false fears and invented demons. Last week, one of the Republicans sent to disrupt a healthcare town hall started a fight and was injured and then complained he had no health insurance. I didn't laugh; I wanted to weep.


I agree that some conservative ideals are useful as a check on liberal excesses. But that's not what the Republican party offers. Instead, right now, they're peddling sheer insanity. They're a mix of people crazy and stupid enough to believe in it, and people cynical and wicked enough to use such unethical rhetoric for personal gain. I'll tolerate an old-fashioned conservative on this site anytime, but members of the new Sarah Palin / Glenn Beck hysteria movement aren't welcome to share those views here.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
BigflyDecember 16th, 2009, 11:05 pm
Truckee, CA.

Posts: 6
There are so many sites where people just antagonize each other and dis. each other. I will studiously avoid them. I come here because it's not that way, I want to talk with folks about fish/bugs! There are plenty of political sites to visit. I'm just glad those aliens aren't really doing those probe things. Thanks Jason!
www.Bigflyguideservice.com
Jmd123December 16th, 2009, 11:20 pm
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2368
Amen to all of this, Jason. Concerning the value of conservative viewpoints, I refer you to a book called "Invasion of the Party Snatchers", written by a Barry-Goldwater-style conservative (sorry I can't remember his name) about the hijacking of the Republican Party by complete wackos. Also, the late President Gerald Ford (Michigander!!!) and some of his comments about the so-called "neoconservatives" (who aren't really conservative at all).

Why is it that today's so-called "conservatives" don't care at all about "conservation"? As in, conservation of energy, natural resources, MONEY, etc....???

And how about this CNN Quote of the Year: "Keep your government hands off my Medicare."

Um...uh...OK...ah...I'm confused...who exactly runs Medicare again???

I sure do hope there are still plenty of intelligent Republicans around that haven't been driven out of the party by the "Cheney" types. There must be, some of them post on this site, if I'm not mistaken.

Teddy Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln were Republicans, after all...

Jonathon

P.S. If the childish one chooses to throw a temper tantrum over this one, well then, I guess I must be overestimating his age.
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
MartinlfDecember 18th, 2009, 4:54 pm
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 2885
This evening I heard that the non-partisan fact checking site Politico just awarded its "Lie of the Year Award" to Sarah Palin for the "death squads" claim, which badly hurt the health care reform effort. Second place went to a Glen Beck lie. Both had already received Politico's "pants on fire" rating for being outrageously deceptive. I don't care what party they are affiliated with, their lies are damaging for the United States and its people. I only hope the voice of reason prevails in time.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
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