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> > Is Trolling Cheating???

CamWolf1313November 16th, 2008, 2:58 pm
Andover, MA/ Andover NH

Posts: 18
I do most of my fishing on a medium size lake where i have a cabin. It is heavily stocked with rainbows and some brookies. The lake supports a small population of wild brookies, a huge population of small mouth bass and golden shiners. This past summer i got almost every morning to fish the feeder steams where the wild brookies seem to hang out. around 10 am i'd call it a day for trout and switch to bass. Along with me there would be some fishermen who would just troll for the stockies. I would see them and get angry because they would keep them and go WAY over their daily limit. I feel it takes little skill to drive around in a lake them reel in a fish. I am an extremely bias sorce so if there are any people out there that no more please help me.
thanks,
Cam
"Clear your mind of everything but the fish and the fly and you will be in the right mind frame to land it"
Billy Berger.
GONZONovember 16th, 2008, 8:02 pm
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
Cam,

I tend to get bored by forms of fishing in which the boat seems to do more fishing than the fisherman. However, there are many different kinds of trolling, just as there are different ways to propel a boat. Some of these take considerable skill and others very little. I think people should generally be free to pursue the kind of fishing they enjoy--within the law and common courtesy, of course. The subjective part of this is that I just don't derive much satisfaction from driving around and reeling in stocked fish. The objective part is that people who keep WAY over their limit are criminal fish hogs and should be arrested.
TroutnutNovember 16th, 2008, 11:00 pm
Administrator
Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2541
Trolling is cheesy and boring, but it's not "cheating." Keeping more than one's limit IS cheating, and you should definitely call the state authorities when these clowns are out raking in their catch.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
CaseyPNovember 17th, 2008, 8:49 am
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
CamWolf, let's call this excessive fish keeping what it is: poaching. there are laws against it. you can work with your Fish and Wildlife folk to stop it. let us know how this all turns out.

trolling sure is boring, but sometimes desperation calls for desperate measures. it beats a totally fish-less day, if you're on a lake.
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
HntrfishmanNovember 17th, 2008, 1:03 pm
hemet CA.

Posts: 4
trolling is...well its not fishing in my opinion.theres alot to be said about it and i couldnt possibly cover all the basis.well where to begin.first off,its a pain in the @$$ for shore fisherman when they troll right over where we are fishing,they unnessarily pollute the water and air,waste gas and ya most take more than the limit because they know how easy and unregulated it is.there are less than 200 game wardens for the whole state of california and im lucky to see one a year.I know the few that patrol my area by name and I hand off lists of things for them to keep an eye out for.it helps them to more affectivly do their job.let me ask you this,at the lakes and rivers you all fish,have you ever seen a game warden out on the water in a boat patroling?every place I have fished,I have never in my life seen a game warden on a boat! its very rare but they are out there. so with that said,trolling should be illegal except for the older folks and those with a physical handicap.
HUNTER FISHMAN:when the going gets tough,the tough go fishing.
CamWolf1313November 17th, 2008, 7:13 pm
Andover, MA/ Andover NH

Posts: 18
In the lake, up in New Hampshire i am talking about you are right Hntrfishman there is almost never any fish and game wardens on the lake. HOWEVER there are state marine patrol for regular boating, on the lake almost everyday. What i don't get is why the marine patrol doesn't check the fishing boats to see if they are doing anything illegal. I have been on the lake for almost 5 years and have never seen the marine patrol pull a fishing boat over. I don't know how other states do it does any one else?
"Clear your mind of everything but the fish and the fly and you will be in the right mind frame to land it"
Billy Berger.
EntomanDecember 31st, 2011, 8:08 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Dragging a wooly bugger about willy-nilly is more a break to eat lunch or to rest the arm after hours of fruitless casting on tough days. Sometimes it's a good way to find some fish. Sometimes it's good to rest the eyes from the intense study of a dry fly or leader on the water and to spend a little time checking out an eagle's nest or beautiful sky.

Trolling is different though in the upper NE, especially Maine. There it has achieved high art just as difficult to master as any other of our disciplines. Expert practitioners use the boat as an extension of the cast as they swing their flies at various depths around structure and open water "hot spots", requiring a level of skill and knowledge of the water fished not unlike what's required for the skilled manipulation of casts around structure in rivers and streams. Mastering the nuances usually means the difference between great angling and a so-so day

The reason this method developed there is because in many of the waters, the fish worth chasing in the spring are pelagic and scattered and because the food chain (zooplankton > baitfish > gamefish) is such that streamers are often the only way to go as the fish aren't big insect eaters. When a 5 pound salmon almost jerks the rod out of your hand and starts off on that first cartwheeling run a hundred feet back from the boat, it's a lot of fun - especially when it happens in anticipation after you artfully guided your Gray Ghost through an arching swing in front of a reef you know about.

Few things get my blood flowing like a good salmon chop in the morning... Beautiful flies and waters, classic sporting camps and woodsmoke, the smell of hemlocks in the spring - it's the stuff of legend and tradition, as well as great memories!

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
FalsiflyJanuary 1st, 2012, 1:45 pm
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 656
they unnessarily pollute the water and air,waste gas and ya most take more than the limit because they know how easy and unregulated it is.


trolling should be illegal except for the older folks and those with a physical handicap.


ROFLMAO
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
WbranchJanuary 2nd, 2012, 2:31 pm
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2502
"trolling should be illegal except for the older folks and those with a physical handicap"

I wish you guys would stop picking on us older folks! I often troll on the rivers I fish, I walk downsrtream about half a mile from the car and then wade out about fifteen feet and let out about 20 feet of line off the reel. Then I walk back to the car and you'd be surprised how many bigguns I get that way. Don't have to waste so much energy going back and forth and back and forth with the line.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
GldstrmSamJanuary 2nd, 2012, 5:38 pm
Fairbanks, Alaska

Posts: 212
CamWolf1313,

I'm glad to see that you are still standing up for the right even when it is not popular. Keep it up.
If they don't listen to you and still break the law. It is your duty to report their illegal actions.
There is no greater fan of fly fishing than the worm. ~Patrick F. McManus
EntomanJanuary 3rd, 2012, 3:10 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
...they unnessarily pollute the water and air,waste gas and ya most take more than the limit because they know how easy and unregulated it is... trolling should be illegal except for the older folks and those with a physical handicap....

Thanks for pointing these passages out , Al. I missed them.

The following is rhetorical since the author only posted 4 times on this forum, the last being more than 3 years ago:

So do all trollers poach, or is trolling by definition poaching? The heinous activity of poaching aside (which can and does occur regardless of angling method), it's sad that the author of those sanctimonious words doesn't understand that the very people he is disparaging are some of a dwindling number that would stand arm in arm with him to protect his rights to do what he supposedly loves. The people who want to shut down field sports entirely use the same language (with the substitution of verbs). His complaints are self-condemning and hypocritical... I wonder how much gas he "wastes" in pursuing fish by the methods he prefers.

Final point to the author of those silly words... If hardware guys annoy you, don't fish "put and take" waters. Don't you want them to respect and support the need for special regulation waters? The kind you enjoy as a fly angler? Then don't begrudge them... The more fishing licences sold to people who want to dunk worms in "put and take" fisheries, the less likely our sport will be outlawed.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
FalsiflyJanuary 3rd, 2012, 10:38 am
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 656
Well stated Kurt and I wholly concur. Had I replied with my initial reaction………well let me just say that sometimes it’s best to just bite your tongue. However, my tirade might have launched this topic to the top of the "Featured Topics" list or entered me into the dust bin of BANNED
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
EntomanJanuary 7th, 2012, 5:51 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
...or entered me into the dust bin of BANNED.


Ha! I don't know about that.:) Posts made by "Hit & Run" contributors that contain outrageous statements deserve criticism as well as disagreement. Stating that hardware trolling should be outlawed "except for the old or handicapped" while implying that the anglers that utilize that method are all poachers is surely in that category. I guess it's OK for us "old guys" to troll since we can't fish any other way. I'll just have to start wading up the middle of the rivers dragging my flies behind as Matt suggested. That sounds much easier physically than standing in one place going after rising fish... Especially since I can't see them anymore and I'm too feeble to cast to them.;)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
DoublespeyJanuary 11th, 2012, 11:42 am
Posts: 61
And I take a bottle of Yukon Jack along so I can settle my nerves and thread a tippet through a hook eye. Along those lines, I always thought it was less than ideal let's say to follow a fish when hooked in a boat then net it when it surfaced near the boat. I always felt it was more sporting, or let's say more fun. to anchor one's self, and fight a fish. But on that note, it is good technique often to follow a fish when wading, and keep the fish on a shorter line when possible. On one of my rivers a popular approach is to row hard trying to hold back the boat somewhat, and throw big dries in behind structure, and into quiet pockets along the high bank. But when you hook a fish, the boat can end up several hundred yards down river before the fish gets landed. I just elect to fish the riffle water on the other side of the river more than having to high speed "troll" downriver when a fish is hooked. Now if I had a young, gorilla armed guy to row me down the high bank, I may think differently!
EntomanJanuary 13th, 2012, 3:24 pm
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
On one of my rivers a popular approach is to row hard trying to hold back the boat somewhat, and throw big dries in behind structure, and into quiet pockets along the high bank. But when you hook a fish, the boat can end up several hundred yards down river before the fish gets landed.

Yep. Another interesting scenario is when a big fish decides he doesn't want to follow downstream.:) Talk about a mad scramble getting the boat to the bank! Dropping the anchor usually doesn't work because by the time you realize that fish just isn't gonna follow you, the boat is either already too far downstream or it's the kind of water you don't want to risk your anchor in. Worse yet are those times when Mr. Biggun' decides to run to the opposite bank and then turns upstream with a hundred feet or more of line out. All this happens in a few seconds as the boat continues downstream. You tend to lose those... :)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnJanuary 14th, 2012, 3:43 pm
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Yep. Another interesting scenario is when a big fish decides he doesn't want to follow downstream.:) Talk about a mad scramble getting the boat to the bank! Dropping the anchor usually doesn't work because by the time you realize that fish just isn't gonna follow you, the boat is either already too far downstream or it's the kind of water you don't want to risk your anchor in. Worse yet are those times when Mr. Biggun' decides to run to the opposite bank and then turns upstream with a hundred feet or more of line out. All this happens in a few seconds as the boat continues downstream. You tend to lose those... :)


Kurt,

One day on the Madison in 1995 we were "blasting" down the river tossing monster Big Uglies up against the bank and stripping it like crazy...Wham! Some shark smacked my fly and headed in the opposite direction. I was in the back of the boat and I leaned over to tell the guide and he said, "Spence. We are in a really bad spot here and I don't think I can get us over."

My fish was heading towards Quake Lake and we were shooting towards Ennis...My reel was screaming as he went upstream and we went down...I was in a bit of a panic since I had the gut feeling that this may have been the fish of my life...I went to put my hand on the reel and the handle smacked my finger tips...(I've never made that mistake again! :)) And ping he was gone! My heart was racing and I stared off behind the boat looking like my dog had just died.

At our lunch break my guide just kept telling me he was sorry etc. I said to him, "Eric. You fish this river every damn day and I trust you, man. We were in a tight spot and I know you would of worked it out if at all possible...We have caught fish all damn morning and after lunch we will catch some more. Don't sweat it, please!"

What is it about those girls of our youth that we let somehow get away that haunt us into our old age!? That fish will live on forever in my memory and man I've never seen so much line being ripped off a reel in my life! Yahoo!!!

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
FalsiflyJanuary 14th, 2012, 5:37 pm
Hayward, WI.

Posts: 656
That fish will live on forever in my memory and man I've never seen so much line being ripped off a reel in my life! Yahoo!!!


Yeah Spence, it’s amazing what those little fish can do when you snag’em in the tail.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
CzoomJanuary 15th, 2012, 1:17 am
Posts: 10
Trolling is for lazy people that don't want to get there feet wet, hahaha. Actually it's another way to fish in stocked lakes, but for me that sort of fishing is something I may do when I am 70 years old ready to retire.
EntomanJanuary 15th, 2012, 7:17 am
Site Editor
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Spence - Ha! Familiar story. It feels like your fly is hooked to a train going by and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.:) My biggest regret isn't losing them, its not seeing them. I'd love to know how big they really were. I remember a fish on the Lower Sac a few years ago...

Al -
Yeah Spence, it’s amazing what those little fish can do when you snag’em in the tail.

Remember what James Coburn said after Mel Gibson shot holes in his alligator luggage in the movie Payback? "That's just mean, man!" LOL

Czoom -
Trolling is for lazy people that don't want to get there feet wet, hahaha.

What about fishing games? More comments giving proof to the saying, "Youth is wasted on the young". Hahaha.

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
OldredbarnJanuary 16th, 2012, 11:23 am
Novi, MI

Posts: 2591
Spence - Ha! Familiar story. It feels like your fly is hooked to a train going by and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.:)


Yes indeed! I'd have to say that those Kings were the largest, strongest fish I've ever hooked...Actually foul hooking one only made it worse...The last fish was jostling below a female with other males and hooked itself near its tail...The guide turned to my friend and made a joke about taking a nap since Spence has hooked this one in the ass-end, "George. We're going to be here a while!" I was actually relieved when he finally can loose.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

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